to be so peeved that we spend approx £1400 a month on childcare

[couture1]

I know I have to pay for the service but it leaves me with little left over each month and we need to salaries to get by. I dont want to give up work as 1 cant afford to and 2 Im hoping that when 3dc are at school in 3 years time we will be better off each month - but how do we manage until then?

Rant rant rant

jellybean where is the two income lifestyle when there is an average to below average mortgage to pay, household bills food and heating. No days out, nights out and rarely new clothes? Where is the materialism? (or lifestyle - wouldn't mind one of those) yet two incomes are still required.

i love when someone says cant you cut back

errr, on the mortgage?funnily enough no -the bastard bank wont let me

How does a FT working parent nurture a child they see for a very small fraction of the day Northern? I am interested.
Great that the staff in your office aren't so overworked that they could squeeze in someone else's case load when the need arises but I didn't work in an office that had so much time on our hands. So yes it was a hassle, and it was never reciprocated. The mums were nearly always the last in and first out, they could have appointments galore it was only us childless folk who were told we letting the side down if we needed medical appointments.

Agree, Martha - we need my salary too for essential stuff. The only ludicrous non-essential we have is Sky Sports for DH, but since he gets up at 4:30 to commute every day I figure he deserves a little luxury

exactly MarthaFarquhar. I am having serious worries about how I will manage while ono Maternity leave and that's with two full time incomes coming in. Not all of us are in a position to have only one income coming in and I too resent this idea that I would be returning to work to fund my shopping habit or to have expensive holidays. I will need to pay the bills and I want to keep earning and working too.

You know what they'll say now, Scottishmummy.

"Sell your hoose"

tbh i think childcare should be more expensive.
it woefully inadequate imo most of the time, we should pay more for better qualitiy care

jellybeans - you seem to be working on the assumption that working mums work for material things; bigger house, holidays, etc. Aside from the fact that some families have two low-income earners and need both those incomes just to get by, it also serious belittles those of us who work because we happen to love our jobs. I'm a scientist. It's part of who I am, whether I'm working or not, and I would die inside if I were to give up working, since it's so intrinsically part of me. Money is irrelevant, we're all paid shit anyway . I couldn't work for 18 months because I would have had to pay more than earned and we simply couldn't afford it, and it's been hell.

I'm rambling - my point is that I doubt materialism is usually the deciding factor in women choosing to work rather than SAH. I should think that more often it's either a genuine desire to do their jobs, or a simple matter of survival.

By osmosis

and i say they'll cart me oot ma hoose in a box

What do you think the solution is Annie?

You don't earn a huge salary. Most people don't. Childcare workers certainly don't - they will be earning minimum wage or a little above.

How would we organise and pay for subsidised childcare? Where does the money come from? How much would it cost to subsidise to the extent that, for eg, someone on average salary could pay for two children in full time childcare and yet still take home 50% of their salary?

...and not every job has a 'case load'. Some people just juggle and sod the people in the work place who resent parents who have to take time off for sick kids.

Oh, Silver, we working women don't nurture our children. We lie about sending them to childcare and leave them at home all day watching beebies while we sit in offices (first in and first out naturally) earning money for our Jimmy Choos, donchaknow?

Nurturing means caring for their material welfare too - not in the sense posh holidays abroad, but a roof over their head and an actual bedroom for DD. Woah! check me out and my heartless non-nurturing ways.

Blardy hell.

Silver - you really have got an axe to grind haven't you? How dare you accuse working women of belittling your situation when in one post you have implied that I am a crap parent, most likely idle at work and 'last in and first out' - yep that's right off I go on the great big holiday that is being a working outside the home mother.

Do you know what - I don't need to demean your choice to make mine of value. Why do you feel the need to attack mine?

Fleabie - do you have kids? Do you work? Are you on a 6-figure income?

More expensive? ROFL!

Why do you think throwing money a any problems there might be with childcare is necessarily the solution anyway?

I realise not everyone can cut back nor should they (unless they want to) but some could downsize etc if they chose to. People want different things from life and each should make their own choices.

I also realise house prices are stupidly high and often need two incomes to get one.

What I mean by two income lifestyle is when perhaps a couple have been together for 10 years or so with two incomes and buy a house accordingly then they can never afford to drop to one income and maintain the same lifestyle. Others always get their mortgage etc on one wage or have children quite soon before they have built up a lifestyle on the two incomes. Just something I have noticed in my family.

True duellingfanjo. I'm lucky to do a lot of my work from home, so carry on once DD's in bed. Like now. Except I appear to be on mumsnet (don't tell silver).

I put in more hours and work a damn sight harder than the woman who works for me and lots of the others in the office. I don't resent this - I'm proud of my job and the fact that I nurture my child plenty.

Perhaps Silver can explain why working-outside-the-home fathers don't nurture their children? Or does it just apply to women? Mmmh.

my children are raised by reprobates in nursery,and upon return i put them in the fridge. i find 25 minutes immobilises them nicely

allowing me to return to my avaricious lifestyle and materialistic me-me its all about the handbags life

interrupted by phone ringing...who is this odd woman who claims love and knowledge of me.says she's my mum. but my mum worked so i don't know her i wail

If more women could work, there would be more income tax. And if they are mothers, they will be good at multi tasking so will create a new, super effective, world leading workforce. And productivity will be higher and we will all be rich.

Maybe?

bbh - I really don't know, I am neither an economist or a politician. But I know that other countries manage much better than we do. Perhaps we should look around...

at scottishmummy.

scottishmummy - you put your kids in the fridge too?! We've been doing that since they were newly hatched. Keeps them nice and fresh and slows down growth so we don't have to buy so many new clothes!

Actually, I prefer to think of DD's nursery as Reassuringly Expensive. She had a brief spell in a cheaper setting, with which I was not happy , and try to remember this every time I weep at- my bank statement feel the strain.

Materialism bugs me in general not specifically on this issue. I know just as many materialistic SAHPs as WMs!

even in some parts of Italy (the wealthier areas) we, with our sorry GNP, manage to still fund childcare (not enough though).

Don't tell Mr Berlusconi, he's cutting any expenses which can actually help this country not to sink!