to be so peeved that we spend approx £1400 a month on childcare

[couture1]

I know I have to pay for the service but it leaves me with little left over each month and we need to salaries to get by. I dont want to give up work as 1 cant afford to and 2 Im hoping that when 3dc are at school in 3 years time we will be better off each month - but how do we manage until then?

Rant rant rant

flexible working legislation

Could you work something out between your DH and you using this legislation to cover more of your childcare?

A childminder runs a business, they are registered self employed.
While they are a SAHM in the sense that their workplace is the home, that would be the same as someone operating any business from home.

sahwm - like that one Rivened

I prefer WFH (working from home). Good gracious, I really did not realise that working OUTSIDE of the home gives you superior ranking in the working and earning money pecking order.

Its why I only had one child.

As expensive childcare prices some women out the job market it also prices some women out of having more than one child.

Gosh stripey knickers that's so

100% mortgages made house prices rise too high but I don't see why owning your own home is a pre-requisite of starting a family. You just need a home, not an owned home.

OK, I think it will depend on the mortgage and area. First-time buyer mortgages are often going to be more expensive than rents because you won't be able to afford as big a deposit. Certainly our mortgage is at least £200 per month more expensive than a rented house. We can afford it on one salary though so it's not really and issue for us. We mainly chose to buy rather than rent because we wanted this house. We bought last October and nothing has really gone up or down in my local area since then, house prices and rents have not fallen or risen. Perhaps we are just fortunate in our location that rents are maybe quite low.

I sooo agree with AnnieLobeseder!!! In Sweden where childcare is heavily subsidised (for everyone) both parents work, after a long shared maternity and paternity leave. Usually the mum and dad takes it in turn getting in to work early and leaving work early thus limiting the days at nursery. Both parents can then play an important part of their childrens everyday life and its great for equality. Both Mum and Dads get to have a decent career, earning a good income and children stay in purpose built, well equipped, nurseries where you actually feel happy to leave them for the day.

i'm going to post & run, i'd afraid, as dd about to get home from school, but WHY are you all looking at how much of the woman's income is left over after paying for childcare?

does the father not contribute AT ALL?

surely you look at family income - childcare = ?? to see if both parents working is worth it?

are you all saying that the woman earns less than the man even before the first child is born, in every instance ? (in which case, there's a lot more to worry about than the cost of childcare)

you also need to look at pensions, co. benefits etc, and associated costs (e.g. travel to work, 2nd car) to get a 'true' picture.

then factor in the long-term effect of not working for several years, starting again at a lower salary etc.

that gives you the financial picture.

THEN you get to consider quality of life.

It's a tough decision either way, but JUST looking at mum's salary - childcare costs is totally inaccurate & hugely misleading.

I see, yes we are fortunate then. Landlords want families here, the property market is quite bouyant and house prices are quite low. There is a large amount of reasonable and available property for families. I think because we are a relatively prosperous town in a generally poor northern county. Does mean DH has to travel 207 miles to work so that we can afford to live on one salary though as the jobs around here do not break £15,000. It's a small sacrifice.

erm...I am in a low income family. we would not be better off if we split (though i would save a bit on food - men don't half eat!)

we would be better off if my husband had a job - even if that was just £20k.

when it comes to 'cutting back' if found we could - even though my original reason to stay at work was I didn'tthink we could manage if i didn't - it is now apparent that we could easily have managed if we tried as we are now ok on much less!

i think maybe if someone is earning 20k they are probably eligible for tax credits by way of help - too many people don't claim them despite being eligible.

my point was that if a person is earning so much they aren't eligible for Tax cx (50k) - why should the govt subsidise their childcare?

you may say 50k isn't that much, but it is 25% above national average household income.

oneopinionatedmother - surely it depends how many people are living off the 50k, how it is being taxed and whether it is a household income or one person's salary though? If the 50k is one salary it will be taxed at 40% whereas if it is divided between two earners there will be less tax paid but possibly more expenses e.g. two sets of travel expenses and childcare. I think it is difficult to determine how much help someone else might or might not need with childcare.

All this talk of subsidies is missing the point - extending the childcare voucher system to be £243 for each kid instead of £243 for one and making it universal (for those who are self-employed) would make the difference for many people. I did not begrudge a cent of what I paid to my children's nursery while I worked. I did begrudge the fact that I paid the rest of my salary (all except £80/month) to the government in taxes. Especially when many families at our nursery were getting 80% of their childcare costs paid, over and above what they made. So now I stay home and the government gets no tax money out of me and will get less in the future as my earning potential is less. Financially, extending the voucher system would probably be a good financial investment by the government.

(I've quit work because I wasn't making enough money to make it worth my while after childcare, but I know I'm lucky my DH makes decent money so as long as we scrimp a bit we're okay.)

Actually we struggle to pay childcare costs and we have good jobs. I work part time but with 2 kids in childcare and 1 in pre and after school care 3 days a week we struggle financially but are still about 400 pound better off a month than if I gave up my job. I know child minders work hard for little money but childcare costs are one of the big factors now in planning families and are still v expensive for people on average salaries. I would probably be better off if I gave up my job and became a childminder but I like my job - it keeps me sane. In other countries like Canada nurseries are much cheaper than in the Uk. I've tried to come up with alternatives but can't think of any way around it except just accepting that we will be skint for years.

Nurseries in Canada work out cheaper because almost all (I believe, would have to check it with my SIL) of your childcare costs are tax-deductible - not just because staff are payed less.

Anna74 - what happens in Sweden if both parents do not want to work full time? If one or both would prefer to look after their children rather than send them to full time day care?

Is there an option for children at 3+ to go to a playgroup or nursery school for 3 hours a day at no cost to the parents as there is here?

Is there full employment in Sweden?

What are the rates of income tax?

I think income tax is very high in Sweden

50K isn't a lot. (dh and I earn a lot less than this btw) but 2 people earning £25k each are not high earners. I live in the south east and living costs are very expensive - rents, public transport are all very costly. Esp. as Riven said, if you live in a Uni city/town

BBH - I never said that people working outside of the home were in any way superior to people who work in the home. And having read back through the thread I cannot see any post where anyone said that a childminder was not a working parent.

it seems to be about £42k joint income is the threshold for tax credit (or anything else) contribution towards childcare for my one child. dh and i both work full time.

we live and work in london. i am from london so not going to move away. will not going in to our working hours or income, but i am utterly skint and entirely agree with op.

Tax is very high in the UK too LMN!