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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed that childrens bus fare is not half of adult fare

54 replies

Kathrina · 04/09/2009 15:24

To be annoyed that when i pay for my childrens bus fare it is not half as stated it should be! I pay £1.70 adult and i pay £1.15 for my 2 eldest children costing £4.00 when it is cheaper to actually get a taxi. (£3.00) to the same destination. Since when has £1.15 been half of £1.70???

OP posts:
thenameiwantedwastaken · 04/09/2009 20:11

Bruffin, zone seven sounds rubbish and it's a shame that it's difficult for you to get oyster cards for your teenagers. But I thought that the free travel for teenagers was subsidised by Londoners' taxes? Surely it's a privilege to be able to get free travel at all if you live outside London? If it's important to you and it will save you money why not just make that appointment at Liverpool Street. You could combine it with taking DCs to Spitalfields market and for a taste of Brick Lane curry...

bruffin · 04/09/2009 20:14

And I can't even apply for oystercards for both my children at the same time without having to set up multiple email addresses and have to give them 3 weeks notice for me to pick it up from the centre of London.

tethersend · 04/09/2009 20:43

I like him. Sorry, but I do. There it is.

Get the oystercards; it's definitely worth the hassle if you're going to use them a lot.

And Brick Lane is great

LovelyTinOfSpam · 04/09/2009 20:50

Oooh...

I love ken too. Can we have him back please?

I am always shocked by the bus fares outside of London (live in zone 5) - going into London is cheap and millions of buses and generally wonderful.

Going out it's scandalously expensive and the buses are hourly or something silly.

mumeeee · 04/09/2009 20:59

You can buy a freedom card here for children aged 5 to 16. It costs £8 and is for 12 single Journeys that can be used any time even during school holidays. So that makes the fare just over 66p a journey and an adult single fare is £1.50 so that's less than half fare.

WebDude · 04/09/2009 21:39

Not clear mumeeee where 'here' is, but seems pretty good value.

There used to be a 10 trip ticket on the local bus (cost 10 pounds) for travel between Wrexham and Chester. Worked fine for me for (infrequent) trips, as it was valid for a year, and it meant that if I went in by bus but someone gave me a lift back, then I got benefit of not paying for a return when a single would have saved me cash.

Of course, after some years they changed it so only valid 7 days from purchase, in a 'use it or lose it' manner

bruffin you could easily create new e-mail addresses (I create new ones every time I visit a different website that needs registration) using free service at SpamGourmet.com (anonymous too, in that there's no way to know where the e-mail actually goes - in my case into a Google mail account, but can be changed if I want to some other mail service).

Kathrina - can understand query over the "over 60" travel option, and understand there are plans to change it (to limit the travel to only local bus services, not the longer-distance {and express} buses that are run in some places).

I believe the thinking was that it enabled many elderly non drivers to go shopping etc without the cost. It has had a secondary effect, however, in that many who might have driven to the shops will use the bus, as it means no parking fee or fuel costs.

So, mix of good and bad, as it's not a means- tested thing, so just like the winter fuel 'lump sum' that even really well-off folk may get (and spend on booze or other things), there will be many who could afford to pay the bus fare (or drive) but will happily use the bus ticket as it costs them little/ nothing to do so.

spectacular · 04/09/2009 21:42

I've never really understood why children get discounted fares (once they are over 5 or so) because although they are smaller than an adult, they still take up a whole seat.

Why are they cheaper and why is HALF price important - they don't take up half a seat do they?

1dilemma · 04/09/2009 21:45

ah don't you remember the signs ....
something along the lines of no children (?schoolchildren) may sit down if an adult needs a seat

or may sit down if an adult is standing

something like that I'm sure I'm not making it up

morethan2point4 · 04/09/2009 22:07

This is something I started looking into after a three mile bus journey paying for just two of my four children cost a whooping £9.60. Childrens fare was £2.90 return, mine £3.80. The same journey for the whole family would be £19.20! You just wouldn't would you! However, thinking green and not wanting the children to think the only way to get from A to B is to drive (some of their friends rarely go on the bus!) we do try to cycle, but as thats not always possible (bit of a rain lightweight I'm afraid)I did discover the 'plusbus' scheme which currently only operates in certain areas and you have to include a train journey. However, you can buy a plusbus ticket and get a Family railcard discount (which you have to already own, obviously!) So, we wondered why the scheme couldn't be extended so that these tickets could just be bought on the bus, especially if the bus and train operators are already working together on the scheme? Surely encouraging as many of us as possible to use Public transport has to be a good thing? We have written to 'plusbus', ATOC,(current administrators of the Family Railcard) and Don Foster, local MP to ask just that, through our website, www.morethantwopointfour.co.uk

mumeeee · 04/09/2009 22:12

WebDude. I meant you can buy it in Cardiff where I live. Also if you are doing a lot of seperate journeys in one day you can get a day to go which is $3 froe adults and £2 for children.

mumeeee · 04/09/2009 22:13

£3 not $3.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 04/09/2009 22:15

Maybe children have discounted fares to get them to school? Everyone used to get the bus and school is not optional, and doesn;t pay like a job...

They're less heavy so less diesal used to ferry them around?

webdude surely it is a good side effect if over 60s use the bus instead of driving, not a bad one?

GlastonburyGoddess · 04/09/2009 22:20

Note these prices are 2yrs old-havent been on a bus since passing my test 2 yrs ago!
B&SIL in leicester pay £2for a "all day explorer, here we pay £7 if you buy if before 9am, £5 after 9am, children IIRC cost about £3,£5 before 9am. Its truely shocking and now I have the car I would never do it because I could go 70miles on £7 of petrol. you add up 2 adults and two kids leaving early to go on a day out, I could do 240miles-like a round trip down to plymouth/cornwall.

WebDude · 04/09/2009 22:28

Thanks mumeeee for clarification. Yes, all day tickets are pretty good (though so far have not bought one locally, just remember that before fares went up, could not buy a return, and with 2 singles at 2x 1.40 a 'day rover' was 3 pounds, so the extra 20p would allow use of lots of other local buses.

bruffin · 04/09/2009 22:36

"But I thought that the free travel for teenagers was subsidised by Londoners' taxes?"

I not necessarily after free fares, I just don't believe that I should be paying adult fares for a child still in primary as I had to do with my 11yr old DD. Also don't believe the fares for those who do not have should not have gone up so disproportianetly. If I remember correctly the tube fares went up 80% in one go, and bus fares went up very quickly from 70p to £2.00. As I said Ken put childrens travel cards up from £2 to £5 in one go, how can that be fair!

Also Iwas born and lived in London for the first 31 years of my life and worked in the City for 28 years,all my working life until 2 years ago, when I got made redundant My employers paid plenty enough business rates
into the london pot. Even now I am only 20 minutes walk from London, so I always think of myself as a Londoner.

1delema it used to be no under 5's were entitled to a seat on buses and tubes and probably trains because they paid no fare and were expected to sit on their parents lap.

WebDude · 04/09/2009 22:37

GG - can understand you not using the bus, now, but the cost for any trip isn't quite as simple as 7 pounds giving you 70 miles, as that doesn't take account of costs for (1) buying the car, or (2) annual costs like insurance, road tax, or MoT/repairs, and extras like replacing tyres and oil.

Know that per mile or per day the costs would be low, but those 'extras' are included in the bus fare, and with a new bus costing maybe 200,000 it is a long term cost to repay (and why they run them for many, many, years!).

bruffin · 04/09/2009 22:37

sorry didn't finish

expected to sit on parents, if other adults needed the seat.

WebDude · 04/09/2009 22:56

LovelyTinOfSpam re over 60s using buses.

Yes, from an environmental aspect, and that buses are known to be used, but when someone (eg ex banker, on better pension than some working people get on full-time work) then they could use the bus but pay the fare themself.

What is happening is that some will happily use the bus so they save against either paying bus fare, or driving their own car, but the funding for schemes {from 2009} comes out of Council Tax funds, and in some places the costs are enormous, so other services will suffer. Funding was given from central government to start this off, but now the councils are forced to fund the schemes.

My sister in Sussex says that she thinks some bus companies are taking advantage, in that they offer paying passengers these 'all day' tickets but any 'over 60' travel pass user gets a new ticket issued for each journey.

Say she goes on a hospital visit, needing 2 buses in each direction. I don't know the actual fares, but assume 2 pounds per bus (total 8 pounds) compared with 5 pounds for an 'all day' ticket. Council would be paying over the odds because the bus company is forcing the issue of all these individual tickets, and it slows down the bus as well, because seeing an 'all day' ticket rather than having to issue a new one for each journey is bound to take time, especially when there may be 20-30 people getting on at a shopping centre bus stop.

WebDude · 04/09/2009 23:01

(sorry - last bit may not have made sense)

seeing 'all day' ticket would be faster than issuing new tickets for over-60s on every trip

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 05/09/2009 08:23

friend of mine is a bus driver and says you are correct webdude. First is raking it in.
Don't forget disabled people get a bus pass too. Although until there's low flor buses its a shiny peice of plastic that does nothing!

tethersend · 05/09/2009 09:56

Sorry bruffin, have to speak up for Ken on a couple of points you made:

"If I remember correctly the tube fares went up 80% in one go, and bus fares went up very quickly from 70p to £2.00"

These are the increase in price for cash fares. With an oystercard, the fares are half what you state. The bus fare has remained low, and bear in mind they are flat fares. Personally, I think that potentially travelling the length or breadth of London for £2 cash (£1 Oyster) is a pretty good deal.

"As I said Ken put childrens travel cards up from £2 to £5 in one go, how can that be fair!"

This is a one-off-payment. Once you have paid £5, your under 16 year old is entitled to free travel on all the buses. Before Ken, Under 16s had to pay half fare. This is obviously a great deal- most families recouped the £5 within one day of school journeys. I really think you should get one for your dc, especially if you live 20 mins walk away from London!

Most of these schemes were funded through an increase in cash fares of around 10% above inflation, for three years (wasn't as much in the end). I think it was worth it.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 05/09/2009 10:23

wish Ken would come here and heave First Bus out. We have the most expensive fares in the country. Its painful to go annywhere en masse.
So we don't.

xxxxBAMBOOxxxx · 05/09/2009 10:36

Riven you have to pay £4.70 for a single trip?

tethersend · 05/09/2009 10:36

Haha, look at my italics

That'll help get my point across!

bruffin · 05/09/2009 12:11

his is a one-off-payment. Once you have paid £5, your under 16 year old is entitled to free travel on all the buses. Before Ken, Under 16s had to pay half fare. This is obviously a great deal- most families recouped the £5 within one day of school journeys. I really think you should get one for your dc, especially if you live 20 mins walk away from London!

We are not talking about the same thing.

The £2 to £5 was for a day travel card. You can't recoup it! So If i go to stay overnight with my mum I pay £2 for a travel card from my station but when I came home buying the same ticket in London costs £5, this day travel card went up from £2 to £5 overnight. This is a travel card that goes on train as well as bus and tube. You can only use it for one day.

My mum is moving to Norfolk so I won't have to travel to London anyway, and If I do I will tend to go by train even to enfield because it is so much quicker anyway.