to not want to either rehome or make our dogs live outside because of new baby ?

[Stannie]

We have three dogs. They are large breeds but well behaved, obedient and well socialised. They are well used to older children (11 - 16yo's) mostly but have met younger (toddler sized) children and behaved appropriately with them.

The dogs are only allowed into the kitchen and utility rooms of our house, with their own area for sleeping/eating in the utility room.

My MIL & SIL are very worried about the dogs with the arrival of our first DC in 6 weeks. They are dropping hints heavily about rehoming them or at least building a run outside for them to live in. Up until now I have been quite polite and said that really I don't think it's neccessary and besides the dogs were here first and are here for life. Now I am getting a little frustrated with the attitude that they will either savage child and/or make house completely unhygenic and therefore give child terrible diseases.. I'm running out of polite now.. I just want to shout at them when they mention it!

I would never leave our baby or any child, alone with any dog and would be cautious in making sure a child does not annoy them into snapping and my house, while not meticulously clean like a sterile unit, is hygenic and kept clean anyway with dogs kept vaccinated and wormed - surely I shouldn't have to give them away to make sure my baby is safe ??

AIBU to think they are over-reacting - should I be a bit more.. er.. forthright in my next tussle with them about this ?

My mother went to the other extreme. I walked into my sitting room to find that she had not only let my dog into the room, but it had its head and paws in the moses basket and was sniffing my PFB's face. My mother was taking a photo of this as she thought it was cute.

I got my Mum to take the dog home to live with her for a while as I thought I couldn't manage 2 dogs and a baby.

I don't think you need to worry about your dogs. There are some risks, but there are also risks in living next to a road if you have a baby. As a responsible adult, I am sure you can manage the risks in a sensible way.

YANBU Lots of people with babies have dogs. You know your dogs and it's up to you.

@thunderduck - collies, retrievers and spaniels (well, pretty much every breed of dog) has all been known to attack kids in the wrong situations - the whole notion of a dangerous dog is somewhat ill-conceived - the dangerous owner is more of a problem.
quite a few people get rotties/ staffy X / doberman/ english bull terrier/ boxer to 'look hard' and have no idea how to handle them, (or, worse, have every intent of getting them to fight) this could cause a disproportionate number of problems with these dogs as well as the breed instincts.
bear in mind the vast majority of rotty owners don't have these problems.

@pasturesnew - just waned to make sure dogs can be right annoying with nappies.

that said, if one of your dogs does behave strangely then you would be wise to consider rehoming, but to be so concerned beforehand with well-behaved dogs is unreasonable.

sorry thunderduck, that should have been to Katiestar. I thought it wasn't typical of you.

That's what I mean. Any dog can attack. As you said it tends to be poor breeding and lack of training and idiotic owners that causes the majority of problems.

No problem.

Funny how no one agreed with your il's until you mentioned a rottie mix

You obviously have very well trained loved dogs and capable of making sure your baby is bought up in a safe animal loving envioroment

if it was me i would tell them in no uncertain terms that i will not be getting rid of the dogs.

congrates to you and dh on having a baby

So, your dogs spend a lot (most?) of the time outside?
So what´s the MIL´s problem?
It´s unlikely that they can get access to baby, it seems to me.
Our dog had the run of the house & the garden, & was invariably "chose" to be outside in the day, unless it was v. cold.
He had a kennel to shelter in if it rained & we weren´t there to let him in.

YANBU -

also FWIW my parents' dogs also live in the kitchen/utility room. When you have more than 2 it is just impossible if they are round the house to keep on top of the dirt/hair/smell. Kitchen is heart of the home though and dogs get loads of attention. I can guarantee dogs would be devastated if they had to live outside!

My little sister spent more time in the dog basket as a baby than she did in her own bed. She is now training to be a vet so clearly did not do her any harm

I always think it is so sad and can't help being a tiny bit judgy that so many little children are scared of dogs these days.

thunderduck, could not agree with you more. Its usually the fault of the owner...never say never but I have never known, personally, a dog attack a baby/child. Only ever read about it.

I think it depends on the dog. My 8 months old daughter is best friends with my inlaw's greyhound, who is the most patient climbing frame ever. (He also twigged that his patience is rewarded in a lot of food being handed to him from the high chair).

I would never leave a baby alone with him or any other dog, no matter how fantastic he is with her (and her cousins), but certainly I can't see a baby being a reason to get rid of a well behaved dog.

I suspect with all those dog attacks you read about in the papers, if you knew how the owners treated the dogs, you could actually have predicted the attacks.

Maybe that's something you oculd talk about with your IL's OP: that in every case of a dog attack, it is actually because hte owner in question has not treated the dog in the way you treat your dogs, and that is why the attack was utterly predictable.

It sounds like they don't know much about dogs, so perhaps education is the way forward. (I know I said ignore earlier, but I suppose if they don't know much about dogs and are genuinely scared, then it's kinder to try and educate them than to ignore their concerns altogether. If you try and educate them and they still keep on about it, then there's nothing to be done.) Sounds like that book might be more essential reading for them than for you.

I think it sounds OK. I don't think germs are a particular risk to the baby, plenty of babies grow up with dogs. I would just say to MIL and SIL that you will be vigilant with the dogs when the baby arrives and if any problems arise, you will make sure you find a solution.

When DS was born, I introduced him to my mum's dog immediately, she sniffed him and it was all easy from then on. The chances are for you that it will be fine, but just be open to the possiblility that it isn't always fine - it wasn't for my aunty - she did have to get rid of her dog when her DD was small.

Stannie,
forgot to say if your rellies are concerned, then I guess they can say something, but should not be making demands on how you deal with their concerns.
And if you have told them how you intend to handle things, that should be the end of it.
What they perhaps should be doing is offering to walk them at first!

I have a 13 month old and a rescue staffie who is very submissive but still people worried at first, particularly because he's a staffie. I worry but then I am a worrier. You know your dogs, you must never leave dog and baby alone together but you know that. Dog gates and stairgates are very helpful. I have more of a problem with keeping the my toddler front beating up my dog and getting in his bed with him! He is so tolerant we are very lucky but I never take it for granted, he deserves his space. You know your dogs and you will soon see how it works and might have to change your ways with them a bit but I doubt there will be a problem. Good luck!

I think staffies as a breed have a bad name because of the people who keep them to be cruel, I understand they are actually not naturally an aggressive breed with people but only with other dogs.

I think you are being unreasonable to be so stroppy.

They are your child's grandparents and they are concerned for the baby's safety, that is all.

Dogs do turn on kids. They do attack kids. They do kill kids. Up to you to never leave the baby where the dog can get at him/her.

Op at what age would you envisge it being safe for your child to be alone with the dogs ?

it is never safe to leave a child alone with a dog.

i have a 2yearold siberian husky and an 8 year old and a 4 year old.

we are dog people annd always had dogs when i was growing up. i was never left in charge(alone with)of our dogs until i was about 13/14. by that stage i was confident enough to be 'a pack leader' but i had had to work at it by going to obedince classes with our dogs so i could learn how to manage them.

i would never leave my children alone with our dog even though i trust him explicitly. Siberian husky were bred to pull sleds and then sleep in with the family at night to keep them warm, so are people dogs through and through but he is still a dog.

Sounds to me like OP's SIL has trouble with her 'dog' so because she doesn't know how to control her dog thinks OP will have same trouble with her Large dogs.

They are worried and that is fine but if OP is able to show she is confidnet in managing her household during a transition period they will come round in the end.

Dog Whisperer(whether you agree with his method or not) did a great episode where a new baby was brought into the house. might be worth hunting it down to show them.

So how did you manage when your DC were mobile ?.Too young to be relied upon to do as they were told , but old enough to suss out safety gates etc (which for some toddlers is very young).How is the OP going to keep her kids out of the kitchen where the dogs are. She seems to be thinking in terms of how she will cope keeping the newborn and dog separate .I can understand that is straight forward.But there is a long time between this and the age the child is old enough to be 'pack leader'

your kids know by the time they can get at the dogs with out your permission that they need to show dogs respect.

my kids know by my example how to speak to and interact with our dog safely. they know they are not meant to be on their own with the dog because he could bite them over power them and i would n't be there to keep them safe.

we teach our children to manage risk from day one this is what parenting is all about. i would as OP says be more worried about the river as this is a risk she won't be teaching her child about everyday.

yanbu.
I had this all the time when pg with dd1.
My Staffie (who I had from a pup) was 6 when she was born and I lost count of how many times people asked me if I was giving him away. 'What are you going to do about the dog?' was the common question.
Err well nothing. He knows his place, generally well behaved -if a bit hyper , isn't allowed upstairs and is not left alone with the dds or any other children.
You can't leave any dog whatever breed alone with any child.
We were advised to let the dog get to know the baby by showing the dog baby things like setting up pram or crib early and your dh or birth partner bringing home something that smells of baby before baby actually comes home.

Thanks for all the replies - haven't been around to post until now.

I have ordered the recommended book and am going to show it/lend it to MIL & SIL after reading it myself.. I am encouraged by the positive posts on here and am feeling less antagonised by the subject now - thanks! I grew surrounded by various animals and any scars I have were certainly not caused by them - and I didn't live in a very H&S style environment! My first dog was given to me at 2 years old and she was a terrier, the rest of the "house" dogs were Rhodesian Ridgebacks.. never had a problem with any of them.

FabbakerGirlisback - I understand why they are concerned - but that is not the issue. I only got stroppy about this on the 400th occasion it was mentioned.. It's our baby and we certainly don't want any harm to come to it ever!

Yes, there have been instances of children being killed by dogs. But also of children drowning in rivers (we have one), being kicked and killed by horses (we have 3).. and no doubt being pecked by chickens and getting harmed(we have 7) .. Why has no one suggested we rid ourselves of the other animals or move to somewhere that has no water hazard ? Why the problem with the dogs ? The dogs do live inside but how are they more of a danger than the horses/chickens/river ?

The baby won't be inside forever - in fact it'll most likely spend just as much time outside as I do through necessity - where all the beasties live!

KatieStar - I was never (knowingly!) left unattended by my parents around animals until I was around 7/8yo and knew how to respect and act around the animals.. I would not leave my child alone with the dogs/horses etc until they were aware how to stay safe - I wouldn't put a time scale on that though as I assume not every child may learn these skills at the same speed. Some children I have taught to ride have taken a very long time to learn how to be around horses safely while some have it down pat in a matter of months!

Magnolia74 - it's a knee jerk reaction to that breed. We are used to it. The Rottie Mix however, is the one that will be visiting hospitals/Care homes and Hospices as a PAT dog.. she passed her temperment and obedience tests with flying colours. The examiner described her as having "exceptional human empathy and a rare gentleness" ..

PuffyLovett - you are welcome! Spaniel & all!

Merrymonsters - This is our first DC - other kids are my SIL's (youngest is 11yo) and toddlers are neighbours (youngest is 2yo) children.. I'm remaining positive about my ability to separate them! We have doors and dog gates!

Hilaryt - I understand your pain re breed stereotypes.. it's pretty hard work with non-doggy people especially! However I remind myself that it's all nurture Vs nature when we are somewhere public with our "dangerous" breeds than they walk calmly on their leads, are polite and friendly to other humans and dogs, and would never jump up or harass any other users of the area we are in, on or off the lead.. unlike the many "friendly" breeds I see rushing about, barking at humans/other dogs, getting into brawls, not responding to their owners commands etc..

Raindroprhyme - I totally agree with your comments..

Have not read entire thread so apologies if this has been mentioned. The best piece of advice I got (well it made sense to me) was to make any changes that affect your animals well before the baby is born so that the animals do not associate the change with the babies arrival.
Our great dane used to sleep in our bedroom and would often jump up onto the bed - we stopped this and he got a new bed outside our room months before the baby came so he was well into his new routine once she arrived. He was always gentle with her and would come downstairs to see what was going on if he heard her crying!