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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to believe that atheists shouldn't get married?

226 replies

Waspie · 23/08/2009 17:15

I am an atheist. I do not feel that in all conscience I could ever get married as my understanding is that marriage is a religious construct.

Yet Richard Dawkins has been married three times so far and many of my friends who profess to atheism are married. To me it seems hypocritical.

Or am I wrong about marriage being a religious construct?

I would really like your opinions please.

OP posts:
AnnieLobeseder · 23/08/2009 17:59

Um for me, marriage was about standing up in front of my friends and family and declaring that I loved DH and intended to spend the rest of my life with him. God was not part of it at all.

IUsedToBePeachy · 23/08/2009 17:59

'how can I deconstruct religious from cultural background'

YOu annot

seriously, you can't.

My dissertation aimed to do that with reagrds to slavery- nope.

Glitterknickaz · 23/08/2009 18:09

My husband is an atheist. I'm not but I was happy to have a civil ceremony.
We married to confer legal rights on each other that we couldn't have unless married, and also to indicate our commitment in a social context.
Nothing to do with religion.

mumblechum · 23/08/2009 18:11

Marriage is a legal contract which has nothing whatever to do with religion unless you choose to marry in church.

IUsedToBePeachy · 23/08/2009 18:12

I also had a civi8l ceremony glitterz- DH is not religious, but if God is anything like I crack him up to be he will have understood my prayers for blessing and reasons.

If not, then well there you go. It doesn't matter anyway.

lovechoc · 23/08/2009 18:24

same as purepurple here, got married at registry office, quick ceremony over with in about 15 mins flat. great!

not religious at all, so to me, getting in a church would have been hypocritical (even for the 'lovely' photos!).

pooexplosions · 23/08/2009 19:08

YABVU, and mistaken. To suggest that atheists should not get married and enjoy the legal and cultural benefits that are derived from that status is to segregate and demean the non religious.

colditz · 23/08/2009 19:10

marriage is a legal contract as well as a religious construct.

screamingabdab · 23/08/2009 19:11

< claps at the name pooexplosions >

spongebrainmaternitypants · 23/08/2009 19:12

Another married atheist here - absolutely nothing to do with God/religion, got married in a registry office, have been married 9years and my marriage is very important to me.

What I don't understand (and personally think is wrong) is atheists getting married in a church "cos it's a pretty building" . Going to a wedding this year with two staunch atheist friends making their vows to God .

purepurple · 23/08/2009 19:15

But pretty buildings look good in the photos.
My marriage is important to me. I have been married for 22 years.

Original poster
Waspie · 23/08/2009 19:15

Pooexplosions - really? I feel neither demeaned nor segregated by not being married.

Personally I think that we, as a secular society, have made massive strides in moving away from the idea that people have to be married before anyone will believe that they are committed to each other. I'm just waiting for the law and politicians to catch up because, as so many have said, if you are not married you do not have in any way the same legal protection as couples who are married.

Also, I've just remembered this, in the divore petition there is a prayer. Is this present if you had a civil marriage ceremony or only if you had a religious one?

OP posts:
purepurple · 23/08/2009 19:21

Don't know about divorce, never had one

piscesmoon · 23/08/2009 19:28

I find it a very strange OP -marriage is a civil legal contract. In addition you can have a religious ceremony if you choose.
You are at perfect liberty to miss that part out.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 23/08/2009 19:34

No, I understand the OP. I think she's trying to work out where the whole idea of marriage comes from, and if it is only religious, then yes, it would be curious that atheists get married.

However, I think the link below shows that marriage can also be political and sociological. God(s) just got in on the act later because they like it to be about them.

oneopinionatedmother · 23/08/2009 19:37

wel, if you are a convinced atheist, then you believe that God never was there, therefore you don't have to draw lines between religious and cultural (it's all cultural!)

marriage guarantees your rights as a partner in the eyes of the law, it also asks all who know you to recognise your commitment to one person.

i often wonder about people who have kids, but then don't get married becuase 'it's too much of a commitment'.

also, hose people i know who don't get married because they think its too expensive (when it costs under £100) or because they don't want to promise 'to obey' (not necessary!)

wah probably i should pu those on the thread about judgyness.

piscesmoon · 23/08/2009 20:05

It maybe seems as if it is religious, but it is like everything else in life-it boils down to power and money! Marriage is there to make a contract to keep land and money within the family. It is a legal document-nothing more-unless you want to add more.

pooexplosions · 23/08/2009 20:30

I don't mean that not being married is in any way demeaning, but the idea that marriage is just for the religious is I think segregating and demeaning.
I may be sensitive to such a suggestion as I live in a country which is surprisingly unsecular in many ways, and has echoes of church influence everywhere. And as a staunch atheist my life is affected by that. I have though been married for almost a decade and take my (non religious) vows very seriously on a personal level. I don't believe not being married makes you any less committed or any less of a couple, but neither do I believe that anyone who chooses to engage in the cultural ritual of marriage should be denied it (which is why I campaign for gay marriage rights here).

I agree with the pp who mentioned atheists marrying in church though, I don't get that at all.

Overmydeadbody · 23/08/2009 20:33

YABU

Marriage isn't a religious construct, it is a social construct.

For goodness sake. God doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

Original poster
Waspie · 23/08/2009 20:39

Thank you all for your comments and thoughts. I'm probably just being way too uptight but for some reason I got a bee in my bonnet about this and this become a bit of a shoulder chip.

HeathenofSurburbia - you're right, I shall be heading down to the library to find out more. I did wonder about the thoughts of the MNers though as such a diverse and educated bunch!

Thinking about everyone's comments about marriage being more about property, power and money, I think I may find that in investigating further that I take this idea up as the new standard bearer for why I will never get married and abandon religion (again ) I think I may be on safer ground.

Perhaps I'm just looking for excuses not to get married; but there are worse things not to do in life in my opinion .

For those questionning what I meant in my opening post, I apologise that I wasn't clear. I certainly wasn't looking for people to tell me that one can get married in a registry office if a church wasn't appropriate, but evidently I wasn't clear enough.

In broadest terms I was asking which came first; the institution of marriage (civil or religious) or organised religion.

Thanks to you all. Have a good evening.

OP posts:
spongebrainmaternitypants · 23/08/2009 20:52

waspie, I really don't think you have to work so hard to justify your decision not to get married though - it's your personal decision and no one else's business.

Just tell people you don't want to do it and leave it at that.

Whatever argument you come up with, someone will pick holes in it!

iamtrufflepig · 23/08/2009 21:02

As others have said, I am an athiest and got married because I love my dh - still do after 20 years - and wanted to be his wife. I agree that it would hypocritical to get married in church, but I didn't. I don't seee why it means you can't get married at all.

Wonderstuff · 23/08/2009 21:16

There is good reason for marrage to offer different legal protection to co-habiting.
'I'm just waiting for the law and politicians to catch up because, as so many have said, if you are not married you do not have in any way the same legal protection as couples who are married.'
The problem would be where do you draw the line? Some people co-habit because they are not as committed and don't want the legal obligations that marrage brings, how would you differentiate between them and those who want to be as committed as a married couple but simpley don't want to get married?

I've heard people shun marriage on feminist and anarchic grounds but never religious ones, interesting.

CoteDAzur · 23/08/2009 21:17

re "there was no marriage before organized religion"

This got me thinking.

In the beginning of human history there was no marriage, but that wasn't because there was no religion. It was because a single man & woman would never survive. This is why people lived as tribes, organized around women looking after the young for example.

In neolithic times (around 7000 BC), there was religion (female Gods) but there still wasn't any marriage.

First recorded marriage was in ancient Egypt, but there religion was quite different, and 'god' was certainly not the judeo-christian God we would refer to today.

In short, I don't think it is correct to assume marriage is derived from monotheistic religions.

BonsoirAnna · 23/08/2009 21:17

Marriage in the modern developed world is not a religious construct but a legal one.