Apparently the world is too 'female'.....

[docket]

DH was voicing his view last night that 'masculinity' is being wiped out and that men can no longer do the things that make them men any more because they are frowned upon and that in a few years there will be a need for a 'masculinist' movement because the world is becoming so 'female'. He inferred that these manly things include shagging and fighting without consequence.

I was trying to make the point that in a world where equality is still a million miles away this kind of whingeing is pathetic and that men were only able to do these things in the past (largely) at the expense of women. I actually had to leave the room in the end because of a strong desire to lamp him.

I think his attitude sucks and his view of the world completely deranged. These views don't really seem to be in sync with the intelligent, thoughtful man I thought I had married. AIBU, is this just a typical male view? If I'm not, how can I put him right back in his box?!

He seems to have expressed his pov, monkeytrousers. In what way do you want the OP to see that the world is too 'female'?

I just think the reasonable thing to do if in fact the OP did consider her husband to intellegent and sensitive is to give him the benefit of the doubt and ask him what's really bothering him. Or she could just not give a shit, dig no deeper and lamp him.

Though, by the same token, what would happen if a man came on MN saying he felt like hitting his wife?

Yeah, they do that in prison too Dittany

Ahahahahahaha! Yeah, good one.

Those poor white heterosexual males, they have it so damned tough. There's going to be a civil rights movement for their plight any day now

Are they? Famous?

Your DH is being a numpty OP.

docket it would be intersting to find out which bygone era of happy masculinity he is harking back to so that we can tailor our outrage properly

Is it caveman? Hunter gatherer type? The 50s/60s/70s?

Did he give any clues or was he non-specific?

LTOS, he mentioned duelling (!), so perhaps an 18th C rogue?!!

18th century man

Not seeing the overt masculinity...

Isn't that when the term "fop" was invented???

(And dandy, adds DH )

makipuppy - you might well have hit on something here:

"Perhaps your DH is expressing The Call of the Wild?

Early man hunted and fought, was exposed to danger and generally charged around exhileratingly."

A few weeks ago we moved to a new house that has rats in the garden. I have been trapping and shooting them and I must say I feel a kind of exhilerating 'manly fecundity' as I stalk about the garden dealing death while the woman and children cower indoors. Must admit I am quite shocked how I feel.

maybe the real clue is your asking
AIBU, is this just a typical male view?

for as long as anyone male or female perceives there to be male and female views there is the problemo.

attributing a set of values or beliefs based upon gender is flawed

he has no more typically male views
than princess anthea turner has typically female views

Hey there,

Seems to be some confusion here. Firstly, men do not have a grievance about global feminisation, merely feminism in the "developed" world. Clearly, in the third world, feminism (for want of a better word) has a huge role still to play.

Also, I need to point out that I do not believe masculinity involves consequence-free shagging or fighting (I guess that, at 5'6, I would say that!).

However, in the workplace, females get a very good deal. As long as men do not actually have babies, women will generally be the ones whose careers are interrupted by children. C'est la vie and most women would not actually want that to be reversed. If you take the statistical bias of "choice" out of the equation (and the ultra feminists cannot force all of the sisterhood to pay for childcare and only see their children evenings and weekends). As most people are clueless about how statistics work, feminists can still parade their boardroom statistics without adjusting for women who deliberately choose not to work, and get taken seriously. And it is not merely childcare which is pro-woman biased. Have a look at the BBC or most media organisations.
These are well remunerated serious jobs.

Finally, in education, when boys did better, everything was adjusted to help women who were "clearly" getting a rough deal. Now that continuous assessment and "creativity" is favoured over problem solving in exam conditions, girls do much better. Rather than questioning the nature of education, the media is free to speculate whether girls are cleverer or more successful at studying (neither are true).

To reiterate, the whole post above applies to the first world middle classes (95% of Mumsnet) and not to CDE or the third world, which I will freely admit, still suffers from pro-male bias.

"However, in the workplace, females get a very good deal"

In what way? By being paid less? By not getting promoted? By not being mployed in the first place? Yeah, that is a great deal.

interesting article stating childfree women earn less than men

"As long as men do not actually have babies, women will generally be the ones whose careers are interrupted by children. C'est la vie and most women would not actually want that to be reversed." How do you actually know this? Is this a proven fact that all women definitely want to be the ones bearing and raising children, and wouldn't have it otherwise.

How can you state, after reading through all the previous posts (presumably) that even the developed world women have it better than men. I fail to see any reasons for your view.

The study you cite comes from someone who represents "women in science", not clearly the most unbiased source you could choose. Again there are certain professions which are male biased and I will maybe give you medecine and pure science. Having said that, the disparity of $3,000 if full professors (median salary circa $100k I guess) is hardly enormous. On the other hand a man will struggle to get a job in childcare at all (especially those comfortable gvt sinecures of "head of child services" at £150k/annum) and also will get paid a fraction of a woman as a top model or tennis player (when hours worked is taken into account).

And, as for education, which is the next generation of workers. Why do girls do consistently better? Genius or bias?

By definition, 50% of women on mumsnet must have sons. Surely some of you must start to wonder what type of world your (ever so twee) "DS"s will be growing up into?

How about really thinking about how men and women will be happiest together rather than scoring cheap (and normally factually invalid) points?!

"Finally, in education, when boys did better, everything was adjusted to help women who were "clearly" getting a rough deal. Now that continuous assessment and "creativity" is favoured over problem solving in exam conditions, girls do much better. Rather than questioning the nature of education, the media is free to speculate whether girls are cleverer or more successful at studying (neither are true)."

Evidence please.

You mention modelling, but what about professional sports? Professional women athletes, on average, earn much less than professional male athletes. Acting as well^.

And, you have yet to answer where you got this idea that all women think it is better that they have children rather than men?

BlehdyDM,

How do you make the "most" of my post into the "all" in yours.

Ok, personal experience, so clearly anecdotal: I went to Cambridge university and worked in the City for 20 years plus. Of my female friends (and you may be surprised to hear that I have many) about 60-70% have chosen to give up highly paid careers to raise their children. Most have no regrets at all. The remaining 30-40% enjoy high flying careers. It is statistical but points in the direction of my argument of choice rather than discrimination.

Of course, you can choose to believe that this "choice" is due to societal pressure and gender bias during childhood. I believe women are adults and make choices and are not merely the "product" of society. I am always amazed how willing feminists are to infantilise other women when it suits their argument.

Apologies for making it all, but it is still your perspective and based on anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific.

I know of plenty of women who would say that they wish they didn't have children, or at least had the choice not to.