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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that playgroups/toddler groups shouldn't be churchy even if they are held in a church hall?

77 replies

ClaraDeLaNoche · 13/08/2009 12:44

Right time for sweeping statements. When I lived in the city, the playgroups I went to were in church halls but there was never any pressure to join the church, or talk about religion. It was just a place to drink coffee while the kids played. But out in the sticks, the local church owns all the mums groups and they talk about beliefs and stuff. The play group leaders also tell holy stories.

Am working at home today and I can hear them all yahooing in the church hall. I have no doubt that they are having great fun and the kids love it.

However I don't want my kids to go because I don't like having this stuff shoved down my throat.

AIBU to want to use their toys and tea but not their opinions? I would add that it is not my religion, but I do have respect for churches that do stuff for the community, especially as "my" church (I say "my" but I hardly ever go) does nothing for the community.

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 13/08/2009 17:18

If you want to do it your way, hire a hall and start one yourself. Anyone who starts one is entitled to run it any way they want to and people are free to go or not go. To want someone to do all the work and then dictate to them how you want it run is totally unreasonable.

AnnieLobeseder · 13/08/2009 17:27

questioneverything - um, I know of plenty of secular/atheist toddler groups. I run one. Why do you think all toddler groups are church run?

OP, I sympathise, as I'd be just as frustrated in your position. But as others have said, the chuch does have the right to run the group any way they like.

But if you can get hold of a venue, running a toddler group isn't too hard if you'd like to start your own.

teamcullen · 13/08/2009 17:33

If you think of it in a non religious way, what are they ramming down your DCs throat.

Good values, love, Think of others, respect etc..

Isnt this what we all want our children to grow up and apreciate.

Dispite what your religios beliefs, the church teaches these things through songs and stories. I really dont see the harm.

What annoys me is when people say they dont like the chuch pussing their values on us and then want their DCs to go to the local church school because it performs better than the next school.

Sn0wflake · 13/08/2009 17:38

I wouldn't really be happy to go to a group that was very religious - of any flavour....but I suppose we can see that there are a lot of people who do.

There will be others who want an athiest/secular group around you so I think you will find something or be able to set something up.

Not sure why people are getting so worked up and put out by OP. She hasn't been offensive I think.

Original poster
ClaraDeLaNoche · 13/08/2009 17:59

Teamcullen, I do agree that the values etc are a good thing, and certainly will not cause harm. I think I need to think a bit more about exactly why I am uncomfortable with it, again I don't wish to stereotype but I have felt a bit under pressure from some of the mums there. And I am aware that it is unreasonable of me to whinge but not actually do something about it. I was just interested in hearing other people's views.

OP posts:
cornflakegirl · 13/08/2009 18:00

Greensleeves - your post is pretty rude and hostile too. I don't think atheists or religious people have the monopoly on loving children and families.

teamcullen · 13/08/2009 18:55

Clara, I dont think your being unreasonable, Im just pointing out that if you look at it as promoting good values in a fun way it doesnt seem so bad.

But I know people who rant about churches pussing religion onto them when the only reason they are in church is to get their DCs into the church school they are ranting about.

daisydora · 13/08/2009 19:42

YABU

I go to several 'church' toddler groups including one at my own church. The one at the church I attend is free. Any drinks/bisuits/craft stuff etc is all paid for by the congregation (and the bisuits, and on occasions doughnuts are lovely and fresh thank you). Yes there is a bible story or sometimes a rhyme - it takes 5 minutes. No-one is coerced or set upon by a religious zealot!!

TBH they can do what the hell they want at it, its them organising it.

Greensleeves your remark is deeply offensive to me as a Christian and for the simple fact that I do not believe because a toddler group is in a church means it is 'part of some seedy religious brainwashing agenda'

PeachyAsksIfDMPeepsSmellOfWee · 13/08/2009 19:47

It varies on the group;if its music babies r us franchose then yes, if it's run by the church group then of course YABU

PeachyAsksIfDMPeepsSmellOfWee · 13/08/2009 19:49

BUT I think peoleshould be open about what trhey are for

Advertise your group as Church M&T group, or X Franchise using Church

make it clear so people don't get upset

easier fro everyone

But remember who pays for the building of the Hall,leccy, etc.if its you then you can , if not then ahrd cheesums

Arcadie · 13/08/2009 19:57

Fascinating reading this, genuinely.

I help run my church's toddler group. I help run it and it runs for a few reasons:

a)it's a real help to Mums / CMs / Dads/ GPs who use it as we provide a safe indoor space and some friendly non-judgemental ears if necessary.

b) because I'm a Christian and a Mum and an organiser and I have the time and I want to do something that puts all the parts of who I am together.

c) because it is a part of my church's outreach into our community. I would willingly tell anyone attending who asked that I help out to get to know people and "be a friend". If in the course of that I can share my faith in Jesus with them then so much the better, but if someone came and never understood more than just "these Christians are being nice to me because they like me" then that'd be all good. I've had the privilege of praying for a few of the Mums and I know they've appreciated it.

The one thing that saddened me was overhearing someone talk about our toddler group and saying "Oh yes it's run by a church - but you'd never know it". They meant it positively I know and I was grateful that they feel acccepted no matter what their beliefs, but it seemed a shame that we come across as not having anything to do with the Jesus that we love.

Sorry - cathartically long self-interested post....

MrsMattie · 13/08/2009 19:59

Practically all the groups near me are in church halls because they're the only free/cheap spaces. Most of them are way too churchy for me. I can't be doing with stories about Jesus at hometime, sorry.

Arcadie · 13/08/2009 20:03

And scrummymum thanks particuarly for your post. I'm hoping to start up a girls night with a similar thinking behind it. It's GREAT to know that we can offer the chance to find out about Jesus without people getting cross. I have no problem at all with people accessing my toddler group, Coming every week, joining in with as much or as little as they'd like and not wanting anything to do with the "God side". It's entirely their own choice. But I'd hope if we offerred more (ie an evening at the pub talking about what we believe) that no one would take offense at the offer, but just politely decline if it wasn't their thing.

Original poster
ClaraDeLaNoche · 13/08/2009 20:09

Yes Peachy I agree that some kind of declaration would be good.

Arcadie - I have a lot of respect for people who organise these things because I know it can be hard work. Can I ask you - do people actually join your church having attended the playgroup?

OP posts:
Northernlurker · 13/08/2009 20:15

Bother those Christians eh? Having the temerity to express their views. Shouldn't they just shut up and serve the tea? Of course it's alright to be a Christian yourself but just don't ever mention it to anybody.

sayithowitis · 13/08/2009 20:31

The church run playgroup my DCs used to attend cost 50p per family. That used to almost cover the cost of the birthday card and gift, Easter egg and Christmas pressie that they were all given. The cost of the toys was met by the church as was the heating bill and the refreshments for the children and their parents. Since the playgroup only ran during term time, it meant that each family ( and some families had three children) were paying a total of £20 a year. Bearing in mind that the rest of the costs were being paid for by the church, and therefore by the congregation who were giving to the collection every week, I considered a 5 minute minute story about Jesus at hometime to be a very good deal indeed!

And in answer to somebody who asked, one of my DCs, who is now an adult, is a very active member of the church in question because of the fact that they were welcomed into playgroup and the various other children's and youth groups. None of the rest of us are church goers at all so it certailny wasn't rammed down our throats, but I guess that DC1 was the 'fertile ground' referred to in one of the parables. sadly, the rest of us were the 'stony ground'.

Northernlurker · 13/08/2009 20:33

sayit - ours still charges 50p per family!

magicOC · 13/08/2009 20:40

Morning town ride.....souds like the one I went to.

I'm christian, but, not the same church as held the playgroup.

This place also had a (18month) waiting list as it was so popular, yes they did sing religious songs (as well as twinkle twinkle, baa baa black sheep etc etc etc) they also read a story from the childrens bible every wk (bright coloured pics which appeal to young kids). Did activities for harvest festival, Easter, Christmas etc, it was all so much fun and religion didnt really seem an issue as it was definitly not forced at you.

Hated having to say goodbye when LOs grew up.

MrsMattie · 13/08/2009 20:45

I don't have anything against Christians (I'm married to one!), I just think it's a shame that church halls seem to be the only free community space in many communities these days. I just want somewhere friendly to bring my children. I don't want to talk about Jesus.

Woooozle100 · 13/08/2009 20:47

I agree with peachy

I go to some churchy groups. I don't believe in god. However, I don't mind my dc hearing the nice stories and songs (we get 1 god song bob up in the whole of the sally army baby singing group)

Am really happy for my dc to find out about all religions / beliefs

And I welcome their hospitality

magicOC · 13/08/2009 20:48

Can I also add that a 2 and a hour play group probably sang max 2 religious songs and read one short childrens bible story, so there was plenty of other things to do.

Original poster
ClaraDeLaNoche · 13/08/2009 20:50

50p!! My local church one is £3.50 for the first child, £1.50 for the second. And we're not talking M&S biscuits, it's bourbons if you're lucky.

OP posts:
clemette · 13/08/2009 20:56

I attend a Church playgroup at our local Evangelical Church and find it fantastic, despite me being agnostic. The people are warm and welcoming to everyone (and ours is a bustling, multi-cultural community) and the facilities are excellent. They do tell a brief story linked to the Bible each week and sing a couple of songs about God loving us, but to be honest I see it as part of DD's general education about faith. She knows mummy is not "friends with God" but she wants to be at the moment, and as she is 4 that's fine!
Surely you can just explain to your children that different people believe different things??

questioneverything · 13/08/2009 21:11

Most people have a wrong view of christian love, real christian love is to warn you of your need for a saviour and your need to repent and get right with God. But the world does not see this as love.

Christians are often 'required' to be seen and not heard, to work like trojans in the community, provide all sorts of things often free of charge, but don't you dare open your mouth or 'infect' my child with your 'brainwashing rubbis'.

If those people DO tell you about Jesus, believe me they are LOVING you more in truth more than anyone ever loved you before.

Yurtgirl · 13/08/2009 21:21

Another YABU Clara - If you dont like it dont go
Running a M+T group is hard work, those in charge get to decide how it operates imho