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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU To Think That This is Bordering on Neglect....

78 replies

ithinkmydaughterispeppapig · 13/08/2009 11:18

My mum and I are quite concerned about my nieces and nephews, they are happy and healthy but my brother and SIL are not too worried about safety at home or out.

Basically the DC aged between 9 and 2 are allowed to play out unsupervised in the street in front of their house. The 4 year old has already had a leg broken after being knocked down by a car in their street, and when my mum visited them this week the only just 2 year old was out in the street in the on a trike. The road is quite dangerous cars parked on both sides, the road goes down a hill and then up a hill, and the residents are campaigning for speed bumps and a 20 mph limit, to slow the traffic down.

Do you think we should discuss it with them, we don't want to fall out, or should we just accept that the way the parent is different to us. The DC are otherwise cared for very well.

OP posts:

GrimmaTheNome · 13/08/2009 13:55

A 2 year old in a street with parked cars and traffic going >20mph is an accident waiting to happen.

I'd say your mum should definitely have a strong word with your brother and SIL.

Essentially I agree entirely with your feelings on the matter. Preschoolers - and a lot of infant age - should not be on the street unsupervised, especially if the purpose is to ride bikes/trikes.

Yes its great to see kids playing outside in places that are safe enough for their age. As you describe it, this has already proved not to be safe enough for the 4 year old. You are not OTT in your concern at all.

sabire · 13/08/2009 15:15

YANBU

I have a 4 year old, a 5 year old and a 10 year old. I wouldn't let the two younger ones play out the front without me there to supervise them. And I've done LOADS of road training with them........... Children this age really can't be trusted not to behave impulsively.

You need to say something if they're letting children under 5 play near a road without adult supervision.

MrsMattie · 13/08/2009 15:17

I think it's pretty poor to allow a 2 yr old to play unsupervised in the street. I think most people would agree, including the police and/or social services. I would definitely say something, as a caring sister.

katiestar · 13/08/2009 15:38

Is there a pavement ? maybe they know they have to stay on it ?
Wouldn't say anything though.they kniow as well or better than you the risks involved and are prpared to take them.

expatinscotland · 13/08/2009 17:14

it's not on to take risks with the life of a 2-year-old, IMO.

that's just too young to be out unsupervised. 4-year-old as well.

i'd say something.

i'd never forvie myself if something happened to one of them and i'd said nothing.

juuule · 13/08/2009 17:18

Too young to be out unsupervised at 2yo and 4yo especially near a road.
Say something.
Like Expat, if it was me and something happened to the children I'd not forgive myself if I hadn't said anything.

katiestar · 13/08/2009 17:22

Depends if 'saying something' is likely to do any good.If it will just cause upset and them not to change their mind ,then no point saying anything.
Do the 2 older ones watch the 2 yr old ?

juuule · 13/08/2009 17:29

But it might make them stop and think and then change their mind. If you don't say anything then you'll never know if it would do any good or not. If a few people think the same thing and mention it then it might have even more of an effect rather than them all keeping quiet because 'it wouldn't change anything, anyway'.

As for upset, worth it if it keeps the children safe. If they are aware of the situation and are happy with it then they could just say so.

CCJD · 13/08/2009 17:35

A social worker friend of mine once commented to me that the majority of referrals they got were to do with children being unsupervised or being supervised by siblings not old enough to have that kind of responsibility.
2 years old is not old enough to play out in the street. And a 4 or seven year old is not of an age where they should have the responsbility of looking after their sibling. Place that kind of responsiblity on a child and somethings happens how can that child cope?
I am not a helicopter parent by any means but common sense would say that a two year cannot be trusted near a road - if a ball or trike rolled into the road, you cannot expect them to have the judgement not to blindly follow it. And this is what this case is about - does this child have sufficient reasoning and judgement to made certain saftety calls. At 2 it is highly unlikely. As a good parent you cannot expect your 2 year old to make judgement calls at a roadside.
To say that the parent are neglectful, when other areas of child care are good, is possibly a little strong however in this specific area, I would say their parenting is without due care.
Biggest issue here however is what you do, given that they are family.
You are clearly concerned, otherwise would not have come on here. And I am guessing that it would be hard not to feel an amount of responsibility if something happens to the 2 year old and you had said nothing.
Only you know this couple - you could tackle it in a roundabout way - "oh I saw your littlest outside the other day - do be careful - one of my neighbours had the social round for doing the same thing as somebody had anonomously reported her". Or you could simply ask "how on earth do you trust your little one not to run in the road, I couldnt trust mine like that". Or if you really feel you cant say anything, then there is always the option to report it anonomously to your local child protection line and pass the responsibility over to them.
I can understand the posters on here saying "no stay out of it - it's none of your business" but isnt that the problem with society today, that nobody thinks it's their place to interfere but when something happens we can all point the finger of blame at anybody but ourselves, who stood by and did nothing becuase it wasnt our place?

kitsmummy · 13/08/2009 17:40

God I think it's total neglect to let a 2 and four year old play in the street. Total neglect and shit parenting.

I'd have a strong word with them, to be honest I'd say whatever I could to stop them doing it.

katiestar · 13/08/2009 17:51

I can't think that if one child being knbocked over isn't enough to make them reconsider-anything will be.

FourArms · 13/08/2009 18:29

YorkshireRose - your poor friend and poor children. That is horrific. and in equal measures.

I started a thread a while ago about kids on our street playing out unsupervised. We live on a quiet street, the kids all play out, most parents supervise them. One set don't. The youngest was just three at this point. By not supervised, I'm not saying they were only watching from the window, they couldn't see their children at all.... and would only call them in hours later with no intermediate checks. I was really cross about it.

I would hope that your sister takes some notice of your mum, and that it prevents something worse than a broken leg, which is bad enough in itself.

FourArms · 13/08/2009 18:30

Oh, BTW, yes, I would think it was bordering on neglect. YANBU.

mrsboogie · 13/08/2009 18:44

Kids did play and in the road years ago but there were less cars and less people speeding around like lunatics and also people probably knew to look out for kids when driving through residential areas. People don't expect kids to come running out like that nowadays.

But if these parents have not changed their ways after their 4 yr old got run over what could you possibly say to make them change?

I can't believe someone got roasted for letting their 4 yr old walk to the shop though...

Tee2072 · 13/08/2009 18:47

Allowing playing in the road is not neglect. Period.

kitsmummy · 13/08/2009 18:54

Tee2072 - at any age? What if they let a crawling 9 month old in the road on their own, would that be ok too? Cos I bet a two year old won't have any more road sense than a 9 month old.

onagar · 13/08/2009 19:08

Maybe the older ones watch the younger ones. It's not that people don't feel it's their job to interfere, but that we don't have the right to do so. It's the parents decision.

Until they make it illegal for parents to let children out of their sight that is.

expatinscotland · 13/08/2009 19:13

remember that hat designer, isabelle blow?

isabelle finally killed herself.

when she was a young girl, about age 6 or 7, she was supposed to be supervising her younger brother, who was about 4.

he accidentally drowned.

and isabelle was never ever right in the head again.

it's dead wrong to expect a sibling who's not even 10 to be in charge of a younger one in a situation like this.

Tee2072 · 13/08/2009 19:16

Oh please kitsmummy let's not be ridiculous and stupid.

I didn't say it was a good idea to let a 2 year old in the road, I said it wasn't neglect.

slowreadingprogress · 13/08/2009 19:23

totally agree with CCJD - totally.

and we do have the right to interfere where child protection is involved - in fact we have the duty to.

Personally, I'd report anonymously because clearly, if a child knocked down by a car isn't going to change their behaviour, it needs something more.

To be honest if your own child being run over doesn't make you change this decsion, a visit from the socail services might not have much effect - but I'd still report anyway because the children deserve that someone does.

expatinscotland · 13/08/2009 19:23

i think it's neglect.

neglect

slowreadingprogress · 13/08/2009 19:26

yes it is neglect - I think people often, understandably have a perception that children have to be neglected across the board to be in need of protection - but that's not the case. Neglect of their safety, is neglect!

katiestar · 13/08/2009 19:47

Wouldn't the hospital have alerted social services after the pre schooler (don't know how old she was then ) got knocked down after being out unsupervised if it was officially 'Neglect'
Have to say I think the post about the 2 yr old having no more road sense than a 9m old baby is stupid.My children at that age would were very aware of traffic and scurried to the side of teh road shpouting 'car' whenever we were playing out in the street (obviously with parent present).Is your mum sure there wasn't a friend or neighbour keeping an eye out ?

slowreadingprogress · 13/08/2009 19:58

I don't know any 2 year olds who are aware of traffic. They may be superficially aware but have no conception of their own mortality or the relative speed of cars to them etc. I would say it would be very very unlikely indeed that most would have enough road sense to protect them.

The hospital may well have notified social services last time; they should have done. They may even have had some visits or something. Doesn't mean it doesn't need reporting again!

katiestar · 13/08/2009 20:06

I said they had more road sense than a 9 month old baby ,not that they had a sense of their own mortality.
What is the difference between being aware of an approaching car and being supoerficially aware of an approaching car ?

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