to be this angry with dh!

[canella]

background to tonights huge row - we've recently moved to germany (dh is german, i'm british) with our 3 dc. When we lived in the UK i worked 3 days but organised everything - school/nursery stuff, sport lessons, music lessons, holidays, appointments with dentists, doctors etc. just all the normal stuf but dh never had to do any of it - more cause i never asked him too because i was at home more so i could manage it (he worked really long hours).

fast forward to now - we've been here 5 months - i'm not working because my german isnt great - good enough to do the shopping, chat with neighbours, friends, sort out easy stuff at school and kindergarten but still not great. I'm not shy about trying to speak it but just worry about doing important things cause i dont understand that level of german. got lessons booked though - they start in 6 weeks!

so today ds1 (4.10) has a really strange lump on his gum - bigger than a pea but really squidgy. We were discussing me taking him to the dentist tom - i'd already asked dh to phone to make an urgent appointment but he didnt do it. So i said i'd phone in the morn but that maybe because it looked so serious then dh should take him. well he started having a go about how i'm the one thats at home all day and why did he have to be involved!!!!!!!!

1. its also his son
2. we're in a country where i dont speak the language so well
3. it could be serious

i understand that our roles have changed hugely and he's not used to taking responsibility for sorting out kids stuff but is it unreasonable that he sorts it out until my language skills improve?

ps its not the first time he's said this - he's making me take all 3 dc alone for their assessments at the paediatrician (compulsory here!)

But it's more than just the dentist thing, isn't it?

Because you sound very capable, and more than likely the dentist will speak English.

The real problem is that you are worried about your DS and your DH sees to think you are bothering him with irrelevancies.

Perhaps if he had said something like 'Gosh that does look worrying. Would you be able to take him to the dentist as I'm working, but please keep me informed and ring me if you need anything translated," you wouldn't be so angry with him.

It's the shrugging of the shoulders and the 'Was soll ich da mit?' attitude that irks I guess.

YANBU to expect a bit more solidarity from him!

I know what this feels like, Canella.

As you know, we moved 10 months ago to French speaking Switzerland.

I have made it a point to go to English (or German) speaking doctors. Not because I don't understand a little French but not enough to understand every nuance. And when we are talking about our and the DC's health then every nuance is important.

DH has never come with me to a Dr appointment, neither in Germany nor here in CH. Perhaps that is a bit of a cultural thing too, the Hausfrau does the Vorsorge-Untersuchung with the kids.

I would tell him that you are not expecting him to come with you to every appointment, and hold your hand, but you are worried about this first appointment and that you might not understand enough.

ilove
I have been in Switzerland 10 months and am able to deal with all the day-to-day stuff but getting the gist of what a doc is telling me is not enough.

So if he isnt going to give any help whatsoever with HIS children, then I would come back home

You are not being unreasonable. You can't be expected to know German terms for medical conditions you haven't encountered before. at mamas12 but seriously would he be willing to agree that he will be on standby with a mobile in the event of the doctor/dentist needing to explain something complicated? Otherwise I would just get the dentist to write down anything you don't understand for dh to translate later. Could you look up on the internet and find out what it might be, then get dh to tell you the German for those words so you'll recognise them?

I must admit I don't understand why your dh is being so awkward about this, maybe he's just stubborn, but most men would be willing to help out language-wise where technical terms might be involved - bet your dh would be miffed if you asked another German man to help out and then praised his calm command of the situation...

You can't ever make assumptions about anyone else's language skills. Working in Brussels about 15 yrs ago I had a colleague make me an appointment with his dentist as an abcess was flaring again. When I got there, she was a Flemish speaker. So she got her Flemish-French dictionary out, and I had my English-French... You can imagine...

So YANBU - he's being a scheizekopf (sp?) - but maybe he just hasn't thought it through yet. What's his weakest language? Ask him to picture himself having a testicular lump examined in that language, so he can imagine the stress?

thanks merrylegs,cyradistheseer & mme lindt! glad to hear that i'm not supposed to be fluent in 5 months!

as i said its not the first time we've had the conversation - i dislocated my toe and he sent me to A&E on my own because he said i'd be alright! and yeah i was but that wasnt serious and i'm worried about ds and this lump - what if it was serious and i didnt catch exactly what the dentist said - doubt in this bit of rural germany that they'll speak great english!

its the first appointment thing - once we go once i'll be happy to go again on my own but its nervewracking going to an appointment anywhere the first time never mind throwing the language thing into it!

Hello
im in Austria with a great fear of dentists and doctors
Luckily ds now speaks very good german and can explain everything ...but even more luckily dh will take ds to appointments here whereas in England he never went to a single one .

I think your dh SHOULD be helping more..

German is a very tricky language and I struggle and it is embarrassing to not to be able to explain everything

good luck

oh x - posts - thanks for all the support!
been surfing the internet trying to work out what it is but he's not even 5 and he's still got all his baby teeth so dont think its related to his next teeth coming through - will hopefully know more tom!

need to get off MN and deal with it with him!

might be back on later - hope i'll be calmer

Hi Canella,
I'm in Frankfurt and yet to find a dr or dentist who doesn't speak reasonable english, so please be a little reassured!

PerArdua
Scheisskopf is I think the correct spelling.

I like DH's favourite "ein Arsch mit Ohren" but would not recommend calling your DH that.

Fwiw, Canella, most Docs and Dentist that I have met in Germany speak reasonable English. The only ones that I had problems with were older docs.

Instead of going on the internet ask him to write down the german for
extraction
injection
anasthetic
abcess
growth
puss
blood
shit anything you can think of
He should be there with you, but if he goes on 'sufference' I would leave him go on his own maybe.
Take someone with with you just to point out you DO need someone.
What a selfish unreasonable person he is being. Why can't he support you when you need him to.

its not the appointment - becuase you could walk into a dentist and muddle your way though to get an appointment with part english part german and pointed at your sons angry abcess type thing

this is about the level of support you are getting in a foreign country - you need to reconoise this and face it and discuss it

was too exhausted from all of this to get back on the internet last night!

big chat about it - he admitted that he'd been wrong in how he spoke to me about this earlier in the eve but he wouldnt back down in thinking i can go to the kids docs/dentist appointments on his own. i explained 50 times that its not the getting to the dentist but the explanation she gives me that i'll not understand!

so the only agreement we could make was that he'll phone the dentist this morning and see if he can make an appointment for after his work hours then he'll maybe (!!) be able to come but if its in his work hours he wont be able to come! but he did take the option one of you said about speaking to the dentist on the phone - because he's a doctor himself the dentist will prob quite happily speak to him.

still dont feel like i resolved the situation but there is no doubt he knows how i feel!

just hope we can get ds sorted out today!

thanks for all your support!

hope the apointment goes okay

the phone idea sounds good

I'm sorry canella, I imagine you feel quite down. Hope the appointment goes well and it is nothing serious. let us know what the dentist says.

I'm kind of wondering if his attitude is down to some kind of cultural difference. I may be clutching at straws by making a comparison with a handful of relationships I know. I have a French friend for instance who lived in France with her German boyfriend for quite some time and then they moved to Berlin. She said he changed once they got to Germany in that it became very important to him that she be "selbständig", i.e. independent. She did feel he was thrusting her out to go and do things she did not have the language skills for and lacked the confidence to tackle.

Sometimes I found his attitude very difficult to understand. For instance she told me her sister was coming to visit so she wanted to pick up a spare folding bed from Ikea. He had a car and she asked if they could go there at the weekend and buy one. His answer, "no you have to go alone, you need to be independent". So she went and ordered it and asked if he could go with her to pick it up. His answer: no, she needs to be independent so she must organise delivery herself or get a taxi to transport it home. I do find it a peculiar attitude generally in a couple situation

I have heard a few stories a little bit like that but not quite so odd and so I do wonder if it is less your dh being deliberately unsupportive and more the general mindset and the view that this is possibly woman's work - dealing with medical appointments/school etc?

I agree with Zzzen. DH often leaves me to deal with the "little woman" work, dry cleaning/shopping/childrens' appointments. He is not a macho, often helps around the house even though he works and I am a SAHM, but there is definitely a feeling of "just get on with it, woman".

Zzzen,
your friend's DP seems to be taking this to extremes.

Hope you get the appointment set up and your DS is ok.

yes, he was very strange. Nice to talk to but odd behaviour really, isn't it? My friend is of the opinion that it is the MIL egging him on in the background who is really to blame.

YANBU - your husband should help you more. Otherwise say 'fine honey - if i take the to a dentist or doctor it will be one i can understand so pack your bags we are moving back to the UK'.

Think the suggesting of speaking German at home will help you as kids pick up languages so fast they can probably teach you a thing or two!

Hope your DC gets better soon.

Hang on - your DH is a doctor? - can he not sort out DC's abcess himself? If he sees that it is worthy of a trip to the dentist i am amazed that he can't be bothered to attend with you. Shameful - you need more support. Hoe he sees that and changes his attitude.

stigaloid - the abcess is in ds's gum - definitely a job for a dentist!

zzen & mme lindt - that sounds like exactly what dh wants me to be "selbständig" because when he fell in love with me, I was. I've been independent of my parents since i was 17 and have coped with a lot in life! so in the UK and to a certain extent here i do cope with lots but i'm obviously not as independent as i was.

but anyway we've been to the dentist and dh was right - the dentist spoke reasonable english and i was able to sort it out - it was an infected lump which he has drained but we've to go back tom - ds was amazing throughout!!!

but dont feel proud of going myself - think i would have done if i didnt believe that he'll never come with me to another appointment because i managed this one!

Am glad that it is getting sorted and you were able to understand the language enough but do feel for you in being unsupported by your DH. ((hugs))

Glad that DS is ok, well done him.

With regard to your DH, you are probably going to have to accept that this is one area where you will not get much support.

I find with DH once he has made up his mind, that is it. There is no reasoning with him. He will say, "Yes, I see what you are talking about and I understand it, but I just don't agree with it". Totally maddening. I don't know if that is a particular German trait, not being easily convinced that they are wrong.

YANBU-
HE 'doesn't want to spend his free time at appointments.' He outght torealise its not you being lazy or selfish- it's about looking after his chidlren's health. Yes, try and get more of a grasp on the language,but explain to him that you are concerned that if an important issue is rasied at docs or dentists you may not be able to understands.
Then smile sweetly and remind him it's the small matter of hhs dc's health you're discussing.