to offer one grandma money for looking after DS, and not the other?

[coveredinsnot]

OK, so I know I might get hauled over the coals for this... but I'm honestly in a muddle!

My MIL is really not very well off. She works in a charity shop one day a week, and looks after her very elderly and ailing parents the rest of the time. For one day a week she comes to look after DS. She loves it. It helps us out tremendously. We pay for her to get here plus a few extra quid, about a fiver I think, so she can go for coffee or lunch somewhere with him. I know it's not much but we can't afford much.

My mother, on the other hand, is in a completely different situation. She doesn't work, and hasn't had to work for about 15 years. She is officially a lady of leisure. She drives a Porsche, lives in a house worth over £1million, and is about to move into a house worth over £1.5million. She is always moaning about not having any money which really gets my goat. DH and I do struggle financially, as I'm working part time, and he is a freelancer, so our income is very unpredictable (while the outgoings are horribly predictable!!).

Despite MIL looking after DS one day a week since January, my mother has so far refused to look after him regularly. she said this is because she 'wouldn't want to commit to anything regular in case I want to go on holiday or something'... basically, she just doesn't want to do it. Fine. I've come to terms with that (which might sound dramatic, but my mother has a long history of making me feel like she can't be arsed with me, so these things can grate!). From September I'm going to be working alternate Thursdays, and my mother has agreed (with pressure from my sisters, I think) to do a trial with looking after DS every other Thursday. This is a huge improvement from her initial reactions to discussing her involvement in childcare, which used to be a very snappy 'you must be joking!'... So, it's a positive step, and will be of enormous help to us. In some respects I think 'too little too late' but then the positive side says 'better late than never' (I don't always think in clichés, by the way).

Now, me being all into equality and fairness, I feel I should offer her the same amount of money as we're giving to MIL. Problem is, my mother really doesn't need it. But I know if I offer it, she will take it. I'm stuck between wanting to be fair, and feeling like 'actually it's about bloody time you did something to help, and I don't want to pay you for it!' which I know is really tight-arsed of me, and really it has nothing to do with the money, but more to do with the balance of power in our relationship.

Given all of that, AIBU to withhold the pittance we would be giving her?

I await attack....!

yes she sounds great

Lol! at this thread. Loads of people get their parents to look after their grandchildren and they NEVER get paid. The payment is in being able to get to help with the upbringing of the grandchild.
Don't pay your mum, she does not need it. Your MIL needs the money full stop.
Why not get a CM for that one day? At least your DC will get to play with other children and your mum won't feel 'bullied' into helping out.
Can't committ as she might need to go on holiday..lol!

DandyLioness thanks for your passionate response. I'm sorry I've annoyed you so much. But you can't expect a lifetime relationship pattern to change over the course of an internet conversation in one morning. I'm working bloody hard to see all of this rationally, which is why I posted on here in the first place as I knew mumsnetters would be honest, as they have been. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond, as we're undoubtedly all busy people. But I have 30 years of a difficult relationship with my mother, the reason that we're even in regular contact now is because of all the effort and negotiation I've put in. I have high expectations and I know I need to lower them. I can see that, but it's not going to happen over night. And of course things aren't as simple as they seem in this thread. Families are complicated. I'm working very hard to appreciate my mum for who she is and not to have unrealistic expectations of her, but I still struggle with that same 'pang' you describe at seeing others' enthusiastic grandparents (including my MIL). What I'm trying desperately to do is not take her behaviour too personally. I don't think I'm doing too badly actually.

And the 'duty' that stops at age 18 - has this always been the case, or is this an arbitrarily imposed age created by government/society? How does the responsibility for a parent change from when their child is 17 years, 11 months and 29 days old, to when they are 18 years old? What does the age of 18 really have to do with family?

skidoodle both my sisters are younger, lippier, and my mum listens to them and has a better relationship with them both. They thought the whole situation was nuts, and said something to her about it. I didn't ask them to. Whatever they said led to her offer of helping out.

At least your mum offered willingly. That must have felt good for you, to know she was willing to do that, even if it was ridiculous.

And DandyLioness, I don't revere MIL for her availability to look after my son. I really appreciate her enthusiasm and commitment. But she pisses me off in lots of other ways, so I'm not blinded by her generosity! And there are plenty of things I love about my mum, in many ways our relationship is a lot better than a lot of other mother-daughter relationships I know, so I can appreciate what I've got. I've just been surprised by her lack of enthusiasm for caring for her only grandchild.

I dont agree that our duty to our children stops at 18. Oh but that were true I could be like the OP's mum and be driving around in a sports car.

coveredinsnot I share your outlook that it is lovely for grandparents to help out with their grandchildren. My parents do this and have a fabulous relationship with my daughter.

My in laws do not want this closeness or involvement although they have no other grandchildren, are close by, fit, young, healthy, comfortably off and do not work. I have found this very difficult to come to terms with and they are just my in laws not my own parents, so I sympathise with the feelings you have and you seem to be doing jolly well with it all imo.

My inlaws do not have a close relationship with my dd or dp or me. I think they are missing out, but I suspect they don't think that at all and that they in fact feel sorry for my parents as "tsken advantage of", who in turn feel sorry for the inlaws. It seems that in grandparenting there really are different strokes. Others suggest appreciating people for who they are which seems like the ultimate ideal to work towards but not one that comes easily to most people I suspect. I don't harbour any bad feeling to my inlaws but I don't exactly manage to appreciate them either!!!! Maybe I am half way there!

On the plus side I don't feel I owe the inlaws anything much!

OP sorry, was not suggesting it was the same - just explaining why I had to say no. I would be very hurt if my mum didn't want to spend time with dd, but I think DandyLioness is right that it isn't fair to equate unpaid childcare with caring and being involved.

My mother has now changed her mind about doing our childcare (partly because she has other caring responsibilities for my 3 grandparents) but there is no lack of interest or love.

When you talk about family caring responsibilities I think you're getting a bit mixed up. When times are bad or someone really needs a hand you pull out all the stops to help.

If your thread was about how you had to have an operation, your dh needed to keep working, and your mum was refusing to help out because it was too much trouble, I'd think she was being a bit crap if she had time to help.

But this isn't a time of hardship - you are looking for her to commit her time to helping you to run your normal life. Once your children are reared I think it is absolutely reasonable (and healthy) to expect them to make their own arrangements.

Interesting about you sisters if I were your mum and I had three daughters I would not want to be setting a precedent of being available for unpaid childcare for their children. Your sisters' interference isn't exactly disinterested here...

Mother-daughter relationships are complicated, and I think having your own child complicates it further, at least for a while. It's great that you have managed to keep your relationship as good as it is.

Don't look for insult where there is none - if she loves to spend time with your ds then her unwillingness to be a childminder is not personal.

she doesn't want to look after your child and she shouldn't have to

find a childminder like the rest of the world or ask your MIL who seems to enjoy it

I hate this sense of entitlement that your parent should look after your children and if they do not wish to then children get the hump. They're your kids. You look after them or arrange with professionals to look after them. And if you have a relative who offers to thank them a load and do not think it is a pleasure for them becaus 90% of child-raising is tedious and the best thing about being a grandparent is giving them back when they start to whinge or smell

Covered - has your dh (or yourself) offered to help with your mils elderly parents?

She may appreciate a bit of time off instead of a pressie to show your appreciation for looking after her gs.

I do not think you are BU in the slightest.

I have a similar problem, but the other way around.

My Mum is always on hand & willing to help out wherever and whenever she can with both of my DS's, unlike my MIL !!!

I also sometimes feel that my MIL should offer to help out every now & then as she doesn't have a problem looking after SIL's kids, yet has never offered to look after ours and appears not to want much to do with them despite only living 6 doors away from us !!!

cjones, maybe she doesn't offer because you have enough help already?

as someone who has absolutely no help, I find reading some of this thread makes me go , although most posters seem to have a good balance with using/expecting free regular childcare from grandparents.

This is quite a difficult one. Firstly, if your Mum is as well off as you say she is, I don't think you need to give her money.

However, I think YABU to think that she should look after your DS. We had a similar situation with my PIL who look after DS 1 day a week. Initially they were unsure for the same reasons as your Mum. They are retired and don't want to feel that every time they want to go on holiday they are letting us down by not being able to keep to the arrangement. Also, what happens in case of sickness etc?

We got round this by guaranteeing both DS and I would retain a pool of 10 days holiday each (reducing as we get towards the end of the year), to ensure that there's never any problem with them taking holidays etc as and when they want to. So far it's worked well and DS loves going. However, there are things my MIL does and says which grate on me, but I accept that they are doing me a favour and as they are at worst irritating I ignore them. They also have complete freedom with DS when he's there, but I know that I can trust them 100% so no worries there.

Some GP's just aren't equipped to look after grandchildren on a regular basis (I would NEVER ask my Dad for example!) or even want to. I would be cautious about this arrangement with your Mum, especially since you have issues between you as well.

cjones I totally understand where you're coming from!

cheshirekitty we have offered, and she shares caring with her sister, so so far she's said that our help isn't needed. But I've helped out a lot with communicating with social services and helping them with getting the services they deserve, which has been tough. So we're trying to help out as much as we can.

franklymydear I have read everyone's posts, and in case you haven't, I would like you to know that I do realise that if my mother doesn't want to look after my child, she doesn't have to. I'm not forcing her to do anything, and in fact it was my discomfort with the proposed arrangement - which hasn't even started yet - that led me to posting on this link. So, no need to have a go. I've got the message!

And you will all be pleased to hear that I've suggested the new arrangement, and she's happy. As I new she would be!

So, victory to all ye plain-speaking mumsnetters!!

thanks for all your input. You can stop telling me off now!!!

skidoodle thanks especially for your kind but honest words. You have taken a lot of care with what you've written and I really appreciate that!

Op-I feel sorry for you. You seem to have issues with your mother, perhaps she wasn't such a caring, loving mother to you as a child, who knows. Now you would like her to be more like your friend's mothers and take more of an interest in your child.
Personally I do not think when my children are 18 "oh yipee now I can wash my hands of them!" I know that I will still want to care and look after them, if they will allow it! My dh has said that he will never allow our dd to walk home at night, he will drive to pick her up whatever the time and however old she is, he considers it his parental responsibility.

I can see everyones point about it not being the grandparents duty to provide free childcare and yes that is true. I think it depends on many things. The sad fact for you is that your own mum is not (and don't take this the wrong way) the type to put you and your family first above everything else.

Under the circumstances I think I would be looking at proper paid childminders/nurseies, it will probably be a relief and weight off your mind tbh.

Thanks 'simplesusan* (but please don't feel sorry for me!) - we already use a nursery for the other days I'm at work, so I'm just going to increase the time he goes there by one day. So, I've never expected the grandmothers to do all of the childcare anyway, but just thought they'd both be keen to help out. A 50% success rate is better than nothing though! We struggle to make ends meet, so the extra £400 per month that the nursery costs us is a bite, but less of a bite than tense relationships. Bloody expensive nurseries!!!

sorry simplesusan I meant to type!!

It is a shame that your mum doesn't look forward to/offer to do the childcare one day a week but what can you do?
Try not to let it get you down.

Yes, it is sad. But it's not one day a week, it's one day every other week... still, it's going to be zero days a week now!!!

I think you've done the best thing all round covered, good luck!

You'll all be pleased to know my reluctant mother is not going to be looking after DS twice a month now. He's booked in for an extra day at nursery. He got the last space on the day we need. Phew!

The power of mumsnet!