to offer one grandma money for looking after DS, and not the other?

[coveredinsnot]

OK, so I know I might get hauled over the coals for this... but I'm honestly in a muddle!

My MIL is really not very well off. She works in a charity shop one day a week, and looks after her very elderly and ailing parents the rest of the time. For one day a week she comes to look after DS. She loves it. It helps us out tremendously. We pay for her to get here plus a few extra quid, about a fiver I think, so she can go for coffee or lunch somewhere with him. I know it's not much but we can't afford much.

My mother, on the other hand, is in a completely different situation. She doesn't work, and hasn't had to work for about 15 years. She is officially a lady of leisure. She drives a Porsche, lives in a house worth over £1million, and is about to move into a house worth over £1.5million. She is always moaning about not having any money which really gets my goat. DH and I do struggle financially, as I'm working part time, and he is a freelancer, so our income is very unpredictable (while the outgoings are horribly predictable!!).

Despite MIL looking after DS one day a week since January, my mother has so far refused to look after him regularly. she said this is because she 'wouldn't want to commit to anything regular in case I want to go on holiday or something'... basically, she just doesn't want to do it. Fine. I've come to terms with that (which might sound dramatic, but my mother has a long history of making me feel like she can't be arsed with me, so these things can grate!). From September I'm going to be working alternate Thursdays, and my mother has agreed (with pressure from my sisters, I think) to do a trial with looking after DS every other Thursday. This is a huge improvement from her initial reactions to discussing her involvement in childcare, which used to be a very snappy 'you must be joking!'... So, it's a positive step, and will be of enormous help to us. In some respects I think 'too little too late' but then the positive side says 'better late than never' (I don't always think in clichés, by the way).

Now, me being all into equality and fairness, I feel I should offer her the same amount of money as we're giving to MIL. Problem is, my mother really doesn't need it. But I know if I offer it, she will take it. I'm stuck between wanting to be fair, and feeling like 'actually it's about bloody time you did something to help, and I don't want to pay you for it!' which I know is really tight-arsed of me, and really it has nothing to do with the money, but more to do with the balance of power in our relationship.

Given all of that, AIBU to withhold the pittance we would be giving her?

I await attack....!

Grandparents acting as (largely unpaid) childcare is a very common arrangement - I believe that around 50% of working mums use grandparents as childcare.

I think it is reasonable to say that the majority of grandparents who are in a position to help with childcare for their grandchildren choose to help.

Whilst it is not reasonable to expect grandparents to help, imo it is reasonable to feel disappointed if they choose not to. I don't think your mother is the kind of mother you would like her to be and I don't think this arrangement is going to improve things between you - I think there is a strong likelihood it will make things worse unfortunately.

Why does your mother feel poor? Is she reliant on your father to allocate cash to her?

Your MIL sounds lovely btw! My parents help me hugely with childcare whilst dp's parents live closer, are younger and do not work, have no other grnadchildren but never do so much as an evening's babysitting!

Your mother might be more inclined to spend time with your son, for the enjoyment of spending time with him, if she doesn't feel obliged to undertake a regular day's childcare.

It sounds like him going to nursery will be the best solution all round for your regular childcare.

Like other posters, I think it is too much to expect one's parents to provide regular childcare simply because they are grandparents- it is a huge commitment. But I don't think YABU to feel disappointed about the nature of your relationship with your mother and her's with her grandson.

Yes we are so grateful for our MIL. She is a star, never asks for anything, gets on with it all and just adores and appreciates having the time together with DS. It is just so lovely, but I think that the contrast between her and my mother just makes my mother's behaviour seem worse!

I know that grandparents acting as unpaid childcare is really common, which is why it bothers me that she so clearly doesn't want to do it (rather than can't). I'm sure there are lots of grandparents out there who are either too ill, or still working, that would love to be helping out in this way. Oh well.

Fingers crossed the nursery have some space on Thursdays now!!!!

Also, I would have thought that 2 days a month wouldn't have been too much of a burden for her...

Now I'm starting to feel all emotional about MIL and how wonderful she's been!! I haven't bought her anything for ages, and feel that perhaps it's time to get her a little 'thank you' for everything she's done so far. Any ideas?!

Princess I know what your saying, but my mum does really love spending time with him, I think she just doesn't want to commit to regular days. I've realised now that it's probably best to leave things as they are. At least then she will be spending time with him when she wants to, which will be better for him and everyone.

I think you're doing the right thing too, but I hope that when you say "thanks but no thanks" you offer her other ways to be involved day to day that don't tie her down as much.

Something like "I've had a think about your offer, and although I appreciate it, I think maybe you could be of more help on a more occasional basis..."

Then suggest some ways she could be involved that doesn't tie her down so much. She might well love to feel needed and wanted without pressure to be childcare regularly.

I would be very hurt if my mum didn't want to be involved with my children, but I had to turn down an offer if a day a week because I could see how much it would tie her down. She helps out tons but is not regular childcare fir me or my sister.

I think you're doing the right thing too, but I hope that when you say "thanks but no thanks" you offer her other ways to be involved day to day that don't tie her down as much.

Something like "I've had a think about your offer, and although I appreciate it, I think maybe you could be of more help on a more occasional basis..."

Then suggest some ways she could be involved that doesn't tie her down so much. She might well love to feel needed and wanted without pressure to be childcare regularly.

I would be very hurt if my mum didn't want to be involved with my children, but I had to turn down an offer if a day a week because I could see how much it would tie her down. She helps out tons but is not regular childcare fir me or my sister.

It would be nice if it wasn't a burden to her, but it is and there's nothing you can do about that but accept it.

And what other people do, or feel, is irrelevant. Your mother isn't other people. she's her, with her own feelings on the matter that are different from some other people's ( but the same as yet others!). Again, nothing to do but accept it.

Great idea to buy your mil something. She sounds lovely and you are lucky to have her. Perfume? jewellery? nice scarf? Does she have any hobbies?

Rather than turn your mother down flat - maybe say that as you know she doesn't like to be tied down to a permanent arrangement too much, maybe she could be your "emergency back-up" for the days when your MIL can't have him or he can't go to nursery because he is a bit under the weather?

She loves knitting (she's an archetypal grandma!) but has everything knitting-related already. I've just emailed her and invited her over for dinner in a couple of weeks, so perhaps we'll have a think and get her something to give her then.

skidoodle I think it's interesting that you had to turn your ma down for a regular day. I do think we'd be better off having my mum around for the odd occasions when we need her. I think she'd be happier with that.

My mind is totally made up now, thanks for all your advice mumsnetters!! Really helpful. What would I do without mumsnet?!

Graprefruitmoon I think that's the best solution, and I'll definitely do that once I have confirmation from the nursery about days.

What about getting your husband to look after the little one and you and your mil go out for the day? shopping trip and lunch?

I really feel for women of our parents' generation who are expected, having given up working to look after their own children, to spend their middle age providing childcare for their grandchildren and also care for their own parents and pil. My mother is in this situation and it drives me crazy.

I think expecting gps to help out with their grandchildren is a world away from expecting them to work as unpaid childcare, elder care, auxiliary nurses for sick relatives etc.

Not directed at you op, just a general rant about poor gov policies relying on free (female) labour to keep the economy going.

I really hope you can find a way to involve your mum in a way all parties will find fulfilling

skidoodle but isn't this how society is supposed to work, and has worked for centuries? With families caring because they can and because they care, and not the state paying for people to care? I think this attitude of 'the government should pay for everything' in some respects increases the sense of burden that people experience by making it feel like really, someone else should be doing the caring. I think the best carers are family and friends, they have a genuine (and genetic) interest in caring for people close to them. The government certainly have a role and should step in when caring becomes too much of a burden or the carer does not have the skills to care appropriately. But in my mind there is a HUGE gap between a grandmother caring for her healthy toddler grandson for two days a month for 'free' and an adult child caring for a dementing, incontinent parent for 'free', or a child caring for a mentally or physically disabled parent without support. The last two examples are clearly where government and professional support is required, the first example is at the other end of the continuum, and the government should not be involved in such roles.

Both my mother and MIL have told me that while they are happy to have my DD during the week they would rather not commit to having her on a regular basis. That's fine with me; they have their own lives and should be able to enjoy them how they want! Plus, I chose to have my DD so she's my responsibility to look after not anyone elses. Your M finished bringing you up and now she's in a new part of her life which doesn't involve day to day childcare! It's her right! xx

Well know that society used to be structured so that women were left with all the caring responsibilities and none of the money or power. I'm sort of glad it's not like that anymore.

The point I'm making about our mothers' generation is that they are being asked to shoulder a lifetime of chilcare so their daughters can work (often without wanting to). So an unfair burden is falling on them IMO.

Also I don't think the government is responsible for providing care fir healthy toddlers, I think their parents are. I just think it is unfair to pursue policies that make it difficult for parents to provide that care and presume upon the good will and good health of middle agedpeiple who have done their child rearing.

Being a caring dutiful grandparent has not traditionally involved providing unpaid childcare so your daughter can work. That's new.

I agree with what crokky said.
I would feel weird paying my Mum for babysitting and she would probably get quite offended if I offered it actually.
A nice bunch of flowers now and then goes down well with her though.

Hi Coveredinsnot - in case you're still looking for MIL friendly giftie, have you come across these? It's a franchise I think, so hopefully should be somewhere near to you. Got one for my MIL who has been an absolute star with our DS (her 1st grandchild), and she was very chuffed. I also got one intended for my SIL and then kept it for myself .

Hi coveredinsnot I hope that you can find a way of having a better relationship with your mum. I think you have taken this thread very well. It can't have been easy

skidoodle I see what you're saying and you're definitely right about the newness of mothers having to work. It's a good point, and it is very hard to justify going to work when the wages just about cover child care. It's pretty crap really.

But I guess I remember my grandparents being very involved in our care when I was a child. I have a great relationship with them because of this. I would like my son to have that same experience, but it seems that family priorities have changed.

And in my opinion, once your children have grown up and start having their own kids, you don't suddenly stop being a parent. Part of being a parent to adult children is being a grandparent (if you're lucky enough). It is a privilege and something that I would be thrilled about. I guess it's just my idea that part of being a grandparent is about participating in the care of your grandchildren, but obviously this is something I've come to expect because of my own experiences, and it's not the norm.

Perhaps this is where my expectations of my mother's involvement might have come from: we lived with her parents for a long time as children, because of the situation she was in, so I guess I assumed that 'grandparents wanting to be helpful' was something of a family script. I was wrong!

screamingabdab thanks, that's a kind thing to say.

But wanting to be helpful and have a part in caring for you gcs is not necessarily being prepared to provide childcare while they work.

I had to turn my mum down because what she was offering was ludicrous - she lives 200 miles from me! When I sat her down and explained what she was committing to, and how I would rely on her meeting that commitment she saw that she couldn't do it. However, when my sister (who lives near her) had a baby months later she didn't offer regular childcare, even though I had assumed she would.

She loves my sister and her ds every bit as much, but by that stage she had realized that being someone's child minded is not just looking after their child occasionally. She helps us both out loads, just not as our regular chikdcare. That we pay for, she gives us extra.

You mention sisters and bossing, so I'm assuming they're older (older bossy sister here). Maybe your mum has been a gp long enough to know what she can give realistically?

I had two very different grannies - one like a granny out of a story book - all treats and loved kids and being with us playing; the other basically is a little bored by small children (after seven of her own, she was entitled to be a little weary) but she really came into her own when we were teenagers and she could talk to us about politics and play scrabble.

What you said about appreciating your mum for who she is is what we all should be doing. Well said

Like you my grandparents played a huge part in my childhood and DH remembers his maternal grandmother practically living with them to help out even although his mother never worked. My mother also had 2 much older stepchildren on hand to babysit me all the time. Yet neither my mum or mil are interested in spending much time with their grandchildren.

When DS2 was born I went on a career break to avoid having to ask them for help as they had both made it clear that they did not want to be responsible for providing childcare. I was really struggling with PND and had to resort to putting him into a nursery 2 mornings a week to give me a break as neither of them wanted to help out regularly.

DH and I would love to have a night out together now and again. Maybe even go away on our own for a night or two but I wont send the boys to someplace where they are not wanted. Both my mum and mil have babysat in the past but we always have to ask and they are never exactly enthusiastic about doing it. So unless its an emergency I dont ask anymore. I used to spend every Fri night at my maternal grandmothers and every Sat night with my paternal grandmother yet its a hassle for my mum to watch my boys once in a blue moon. I just dont get it.

Now the boys are 11 and 4 and sadly they dont have the kind of relationship with their grandparents that DH and I had. But the people who have lost out the most are the grandparents themselves.

Sorry this has turned into a self indulgent moan. Make the most of your MIL she sounds like a gem.