To be horrified that you can get homepathic treatments on the NHS

[brightonlad]

It seems extraordinary that with the NHS experiencing major funding problems and people being turned down for treatments on the grounds of cost that we're paying for people to have this kind of therapy.
If you read the theory behind it it's obviously bogus and the results of all the trials that have been done have consistently shown it to be no better than placebo.
The only way to justify it that I can see is as a form of faith healing and I wouldn't expect my GP to tell me to see my Priest least of all make a generous donation to the roof fund.

I think without a doubt there are loads of things that help (incl things I personally have no time for) and in a culture where touch is nearly taboo, we really need them, especially when ill.

"It is more about acupuncture and reiki etc. hands on healing." Mrs Ruffalo.

No its not. You are defending something without understanding the terminilogy involved. You are clearly talking about "complementary" or "holistic" therapies. Homeopathy is a specific thing involving dilutions of natural substances, and has nothing whatsoever to do with acupuncture or anything else. For example- acupuncture is a well researched, scientifically tested and partialy endorsed therapy, homeopathy is 19th century quackery involving water having a memory and completely debunked by rigorous testing.

If you want to defend such things, at least bother to get names right.

yes Hazeyjane - however, homeopathy is NOT going to alleviate symptoms, unless your symptom is thirst.

The point is that homeopathy is trying to present itself as an alternative to medicine, when it isn't - things like massage and counselling are complements to medicine, as in it is acknowledged that they help, but also that they are not cures.

This is the problem I have with so-called alternative medicines as opposed to complementary ones.

No way!!!! Reiki is available on the NHS too! THEY DON'T EVEN TOUCH YOU!!!!!!!

Last post not specifically ar mrs r, but at all those mixing up homeopathy with complementary or natural therapies. You are doing them as disservice by lumping everything in with homeopathy.

arolf - brilliantly put, the hijacking of the word complimentary is a big problem in this situation.

I supppose by being available on the NHS we are making those alternative therapies mentioned open to everyone.As you mention before, it had largely been a middle class market as they are the ones that can afford it.
It can only be a good thing to offer people from other walks of life a chance to see if these therapies work for them.
Maybe this is what annoys certain people?

but why should the taxpayer/government fund something that has never been proved to work?

(actually, that same arguement could be applied to government itself, but anyway...)

homeopathy is such utter nonsense, it's fine if you want to waste spend your own money on it, but why must you waste spend our money too?

mrsruffallo - this is not a class issue!
People don't need to see if these things will work for them, that's why we have a system of peer reviewed journals publishing controlled trials.

The OP was about homeopathy, not about alternative/complementry therapies in general.

Proverbial,I was giving an example of the treatments on offer, trying to explain that it wasn't usually actual pills that the practioners were handing out.
Even if you disagree with what I post, I don't see the need for such an aggressive post.
It doesn't really bring anything useful to the discusion

Homeopathy and complementary medicine more broadly can, in the right circumstances, be clinically and cost-effective. See the Northern Ireland study, commissioned by the Dept of Health & SS, that allowed GPs to refer patients suffering from chronic diseases to a range of complementary practitioners - the patients got better, used less conventional medicine and saw their GPs less. Result all round - patients felt better and the NHS saved money.

Btw, the money that funds the Homeopathic Hospital comes out of a different budget to the sort of thing that GOSH raises funds for. If you stopped all funding of the Homeopathic Hospital, you wouldn't get a single extra bed pan for GOSH. It's a false comparison.

It does actually, since acupuncture is nothing to do with homeopathy. Neither is reiki, or massage or anything else. On offer where? Not by a homeopathist.

Its not an agressive post, you are the one defending something without understanding what you are talking about.

And the taxpayer funds an awful lot of stuff the NHS does that is of questionable value - tonsilectomy/use of antibiotics in some circumstances/grommets/SSRIs... the list is endless. Any of these interventions will be popular and may even be justifiable in some patients but are actually over-used way beyond anything the evidence demonstrates is appropriate.

Well, if there wasn't the demand from patients then the treatments wouldn't be available.

mrsruffallo - that's a terrible argument! We're not talking about the open market here, we're talking about a state funded health service.

@ brightonlad - yes, peer review is a good thing mostly, however, you only have to look at certain Lancet publications on the subject of the MMR to see that it isn't infallible!

I think saying I don't know what I am talking about is rude and aggressive.
I may have the wrong terminology in your opinion but what I am defending is defending is the use of non medical therapy and the availability of it within the NHS.

edam - That sounds really interesting, I'll have to google that study when I get home. So distracting ill people with something shiny can be cheaper than getting a qualified GP to waste time on a condition that will never improve.

edam - to pick one of your examples at random - why would SSRIs be of questionable value? have they not been proven to work in many many case studies?

I found this book very interesting:

John Diamond-Snake Oil

Funded by the patients that use it!
The same patients that feel it complements their treatment.
Whose opinion is more important than theirs?

The point is to have symptoms alleviated - it matters not a jot how this happens.

I think people don't really understand the placebo effect properly on this thread.

The point is to have your mind affected in order that it can help heal the body and change your attitude to health and well-being.

also the Northern Ireland study was run by an organisation that says 'Our mission is to be the best supplier of complementary healthcare to the National Health Service.', so not an entirely unbiased study, was it?!

Not my fault if you don't know what you are talking about, is it?

It really bugs me if you throw it all in together, its insulting to practioners of stuff that actually makes sense and is proven to work, when you talk as if they are the same as ridiculous rubbish such as reiki and homeopathy. You might as well ask for crystal healing and angel workshops on the NHS, or maybe chakra pyramids on prescription. If people want to beleive in such stuff, let them pay for it themselves.