WWYD??? I am having such an argument in my own head!

[redhot]

I've been seeing a guy for about 6 months now. He's 44, and a life-long batchelor, a few long term relationships but nothing serious really. I am just getting out of a 20 year marriage.

Anyway, he's really sweet, I tell him he's the sweetest guy in the world, but it does mean that he quite often (well, very often) does things for other people when he doesn't need to. It's almost like a call for them to like him. My prob is that he says he will meet me, then doesn't turn up at the right time, because he's doing something for someone. He takes his colleagues home after work, or he phones to say he can pop over in his lunchtime, then doesn't. No phone call, nothing. This weekend he went off on friday to a family do, saying he will be back sunday. I spend all day sunday trying to second-guess when he will be back, then get a phonecall at 930PM to say he's staying sunday night too. Oh and then another one at 11.30 to say he's home.

He hasn't phoned today, but he did say last night 'see you tomorrow'. The argument in my head goes something like, I say 'yes see you at 7' and then go to Tescos for the weekly shop, versus actually going to see him but having a big argument.

AIBU?? And what can I do? I do love him but he seems to put everyone else before me. Maybe he doesneed a taste of his own medicine? I just don't want an argument

dump him, he sounds fucking awful

you are a mug if you put up with constantly being second best

He sounds like an inconsiderate dick. Sorry.

Could I just mention though... you had an argument about him being 15 mins late? Is that not a bit silly?

To be fair, I cannot BEAR tardiness, it would be a dealbreaker for me.

Actually this is just passive agressive controlling behaviour, the part where he turns his misdeeds into your problem is so classic. PLease get out now or you will live your life feeling like you are in the wrong while being treated like rubbish.

and never beg for affection, it just gives him even more power.

I spent my whole marriage avoiding kisses and cuddling, not becasue I didn;t like them, I know now that I never loved my husband, becasue I jsut can't keep my hands of sweetguy! Serendipitous - the argumaent was about him saying meet me at 630, I got there for that time and waited about on his doorstep. After 15 mins I started off home (down the road as I said) and he drove up as I wsa nearly home. No word o apology, just an attack for being 'selfish'. We've argued before about the lack of affection, - I went away for a few days, but came home a day early (lots of reasons, not just him) but when I got to his house, there was nothing. A small kiss, that was it. Then he sat and continued what he was doing on the computer - his excuse was that I shouldn;'t have come home early, that if I'd come home as scheduled the next day he's have finished what he was doing and be ready for me. I don't think he thinks about his behavious, he's never had to think about someone else, lifelong batchelor as he is.

Actually, he's just phoned and apologised for not getting home yesterday, he did realise that it's not polite or respectful behavious to your other half. He does 'get involved' and forget, I really don't think it's deliberate, just thoughtless.

any point put to you and you spring to his defence redhot

about what a great swell guy he is etc. blah blah if he was all that you wouldnt be posting his shortcomings on MN.would you

but seems to me you are not in the right frame of mind to hear any contrary view about this man

so you know what i guess you chose option
a blithely continue to make excuses and let him tell you a few hacknied cliches,and things roll along.at his will

redhot, please read this back to yourself and see how it appears to everyone who is not emotionally involved. Now do something about it.

No-one wants you to be on your own but no-one is worth putting up with this sort of crap. Value yourself

Or you could try to teach him to think more as part of a couple. This does not equate to trying to change him BTW it's just that he will not 'change' as quickly as you want him too without your help. In fact it is highly possible that he may not be able to accommodate you in his life since he has been alone for such a long time. As I said before, the way to do it is to be a bit more gracious about his short comings - treat him as you would a child whose behaviour you are trying to correct (without being condescending obviously). I'm guessing the affection thing will come when he feels less 'got at'.

why should one have to teach/train basic respect to a man bereft of them

strikes me he is single for a reason
maybe he likey it
maybe he doesnt want to change

this cliched notion that the love of a good woman will over come all short comings and change a man is frankly a bitty naive.and dangerous it promotes thta te responsibility for his behaviours lies with redhot.well no,only he is responsible for his behaviours

redhot:if you want a punctual considerate man, best look else where it isnt this chap

or are you are willing to go along with his habits and gloss over the bits that cause you pain

Hi. I think you have to be clear in your head, about whether you can tolerate this behaviour or not.
Over the next few days, give yourself a time-limit on when you expect to see changes in his behaviour, and stick to it. Tell him, you find his time-keeping difficult/annoying, and his attitude towards you hurtful at times. Be clear with him, what you need him to do-do not argue,be firm and CLEAR-he needs things spelt out.
If he has not been in a long-term relationship for a while, he is not in the habit of being answerable to someone else for his actions.Either he is in his 40s and a bachelor cos other women have found him impossible, or he truly hasnt met "the one", and it could be you, but the thought of needing someone is scaring him, and he is trying to keep a little distance. Get him to be honest with you re his feelings and where he sees this relationship going. Good Luck.

"the one" is the most toxic love myth ever purported

dangerous
false
and maintains the notion someone can completley change for love of a good woman

Sooo, he makes sure you're available should he decide he wants to see you and then if it fits in with him he will, unless something better/more important turns up...

After only 6 months he's already not that fussed about kissing/pleased to see you.

He doesn't think about you.

He thinks you should fit in with his life when it suits him, so you can't be early and can't complain when he's late/doesn't turn up.

He's not going to change. He likes his life the way it is and it's worked fine for years for him.

You either want this relationship or not, but this is the one on offer, don't kid yourself into thinking you can change him.

The fact you had to practically beg him for a kiss and a cuddle is a red flag to me.

You didn't want a relationship really so why settle for this that is causing you stress?

That wasnt what I was saying, scottishmummy,and I think you know that.I dont particularly like the sound of this man either,but, it isnt you or I, that are having a relationship with him. I can be as "militant and right-on", as you, but its not really helpful, when someone is asking for an opinion. He could be a "dog", or, he could be generally useless with relationships-we dont know.

Whichever Bigpants1 he is causing her pain and at 40 I don't think he really has the ability to change who he fundamentaly is - do you?

Thanks all - I have read this back and while I agree that the man descibed here is a total self-centred pig, that isn't actually how he is. He is really sweet, but yes, not used to being in a relationship, or in a couple. He's just so laid back, never had to look out for anyone else. I never wanted a relationship, I didn't expect to fall for him - I was the one mostly in control in my mariage. The other 2 guys would be only too glad to kiss and cuddle me all day, and my head says if that's what I want, 1 of them would be 'the one.' But i followed my head before, and 20 years later I am older and wiser.
i think I have to put my foot down re the timekeeping, and the diss-ing. I don't want another argument, but as I say, he phoned and apologised for not coming back yesterday when he said he would. He knew it was wrong. He says things like 'maybe we should just be friends then' rather than lovers and a couple - and my heart feels sick. I know how it sounds, but I am not one of those women who 'need' a man. I am a strong woman, and anyone else treating me like this would me kicked a mile.

It is not a lack of basic respect to be 15 minutes late. Within a relationship it is necessary to 'change' to accommodate the other person in your life. No one is talking about changing fundamental beliefs or anything here, just thinking for two or thinking together as one. You may have a point scottishmummy - he may be single because he has never learned to 'relate' successfully. That is not to say that he can't learn with redhot.

Redhot: in your OP, almost the first thing you say about him is that he's a 'life-long batchelor'. And that's exactly how he is acting: as a single guy. I suspect that he's very scared of intimacy and this is his way of keeping you at arm's length and himself 'safe'. I don't agree with other posters who think he's being malicious, but I do think that you're onto a loser here ... unless there's a part of you that, after a long marriage, is attracted to someone who does not want to settle down.

The real question is, is he giving you what you need? Evidently not. And is there any way you can change things so that he does give you what you need (respect, consideration, affection, etc)? I think that's unlikely.

x-post with you, redhot.

ok, redhot has met a man who sets her pants on fire after a long time in a marriage-she wont accept that he's a bit of an inconsiderate twat-stands her up,wont commit to a date,is always unavailable to her emotionally and is frankly acting as what he is-a bachelor of many years-possibly for a very very good reason.
She is backing this up by saying she's not just desperate for a shag because there's 2 others men she doesn't fancy who would shag her if she gave the nod
I think she is heading for heartbreak but hey ho,she's prepared to keep defending him so leave her to it. I imagine when it all goes to shit she'll be somewhere doing 'woe is me' on the relationship thread!
OP,you can do better than this,you might not know how it 'goes' nowadays,it's ok to meet someone and have a sexual 'click'with them if the rest of the relationship is shit-as long as you are tough enough to withstand all the crap,your posting this thread indicates to me that perhaps you aren't ready for this kind of relationship as a 'welcome back into the world of dating'

Sleepless - he does set my pants on fire. After 20 years of a nearly-sexless marriage, I thought I didn't like sex. I didn't believe in 'love' -that's why i married a man who was a good provider, good father, good job etc. 20 years later I am in a marriage with someone I don't even like much. I am not on the rebound. I am not some 'little woman', desperate for a shag. I am not desperate for a man to be a couple with, - I cannot understand those women who get divorced and the first thing they do is go grab another man! WHY??? That's not what happened. I really feel I love this guy. I just want to know how to make him more considerate.

Actually reading that back, it's impossible. No-one can change another person. Esp at age 40-odd. You're right, I either put up with it or leave him to it. But I do know that if it does end, then I'm not going to be out there looking for another Mr Right. I'm happy on my own.

You don't have to put up with it. Each time he behaves in a way that you think is inappropriate (for a loving relationship) - tell him in the nicest possible way. He will work it out eventually .

I think what I'd do is carry on seeing him, because you like him. But like this weekend,

I'd say 'so you're coming back on Sunday? Shall we meet or leave it for next week?'

he says, 'erm, not sure what I'm doing on Sunday'

you say, 'great. Let's say Tuesday then. I'll see you tuesday'

Be firm about what you want, communicate it clearly, hope he manages to make Tuesday. If he doesn't, move on. Don't spend Sunday hanging around wondering what time he'll be back for starters.

You know he's like this, so get a organized yourself. And give him his own space in which to be crap and selfish, so he can turn up properly to see you at the right time

not disagreeing necessarily with anything here, because he does sound a bit of a selfish flake, but just to throw in another perspective: several of (my very domesticated) DB's friends are single men in their late 30s, some of whom haven't had a big live-in relationship ever, for one reason or another. They're not emotionally crippled or secretly gay or anything, but men do seem able to drift along outside relationships more easily than women. Their mates are their 'family' - they do favours for them at the drop of a hat. However they DO want to settle down now but the prospect is quite scary for them - the stakes seem so much higher when you haven't had a few practice runs, and if the dates come with DCs it's even more imperative not to get things wrong. That tends to result in backing off before things get emotional and messy.

Only you know if he's acting weird because he's a genuine cold fish or because he's just in very unfamiliar waters. I doubt he's being malicious either, but he's essentially still living the life of a twentysomething - no ties, no routine, no need to check in with anyone. You've had years of strict routines, because of the kids. He hasn't. And (so I'm led to believe) until you have children you don't understand the difference between 5 mins and 30 mins. You need to tell him how important it is to be reliable, punctual, etc, especially after six months. He might just not get it. Admittedly, he might not WANT to get it, but at least you'll have laid it out for him, so he's got no excuse for not understanding.

Think you have to be realistic: you won't be able to change a 40 something bachelor much at this stage - cf, Hugh Grant/Jemima Khan - but maybe you should give him a chance to see what it is you need? Whether that's going to be something you feel you can take on, when you've already got three children at the top of your priority list, is up to you.

gawd save us from "confirmed bachelors"

just another word for selfish twat, really

so whenever you tackle him about something he says "well, lets just be friends then"

OP, sounds like it will be you putting all the effort in, if you are happy with that, knock yerself out

Actually, he needs to get a grip.