to think that mega early weaning should not be promoted at a baby massage class?

[SatHereSitting]

I take DS to a baby massage class at the local surestart centre, there is about 11 of us with the eldest baby there being about 14 weeks. Last week the subject of weaning came up and one mum said she had weaned her DS at 10 weeks and another said she had begun to wean at 8 weeks due to reflux.I was the only one who appeared shocked, and the other mums started to ask questions and seemed interested, saying things like "oh really, I might try mine then"

I knew this was wrong and without trying to sound judgemental I said that current guidelines were to wait untill about 6 months as a baby's digestive system wasn't really ready before then.

The Surestart leader however said "well they change the guidelines all the time, it was three months when I weaned mine, if they're hungry go for it".The group then continued to discuss early weaning, I tried to say again that it wasn't suitable but realising from the looks I was getting that I shouldn't say any more I shut up.

Anyway today the worker gives us a handout on weaning, which states on it

'It is vital that a mixed and varied diet be well established by the age of six months'

So AIBU to think that 1. This worker clearly shouldn't be encouraging weaning which at best is ill informed and at worst dangerous.
2.Shouldn't be talking about weaning at all it's a baby massage class. And 3. Shouldn't be giving us handouts that appear to promote early weaning and especially as the eldest baby is only 14 weeks, so nobody should be thinking about weaning yet.

I'm not sure what to do, obviously I am well aware of the guidelines but some of the mums who go are not. Should I speak to the manager and make sure that the worker gives out the correct infomation next week and tells the group that early weaning is not suitable?

I believe it was the WHO who changed it years ago. It took the nhs longer to follow.

Bloody WHO. WHat do they know eh?

I think this has strayed a bit. The OP was about a massage class giving weaning advice and that advice being taken in by mothers of babies at 8 weeks. I think we all agree that weaning babies that young is just nuts - don't we?

How has this thread moved from the OP's "Should I mention to Surestart that one of their leaders is handing out stuff that goes against NHS guidelines and encouraging women to wean their very young babies?" onto "What Did Doris Do"?

Well, I seem to remember some on here saying that infacol etc.. wasn't ingested. Not the same way as food.

And no, DCs never ate grass or anything before 6 months, as for a start they couldn't sit up unaided (a sign of readiness for weaning) and couldn't grasp anything correctly (which is another sign of readiness for weaning) and also couldn't manage to put stuff into their mouths and actually swallow grass etc..(which, yes you've guessed it is another sign of true readiness for weaning!)

Can I have MJs autograph please

I agree, got carried away - will shut up.

(PS - first link was only to illustrate iron deficiency in kids - not as a direct result of exclusive BF. Low iron = no good.

Incidentally, my GP said if i was anaemic, BM would be low too - but (as we have debated) what do Drs know!)

GPs know very little about breastfeeding. Tis true!

True, my bub was an early sitter/chewer of everything (including shoes!)

PrincessToadstool - the iron in your BM would not impact on weight. You can't say any more than I can whether or not is was enough, so maybe we're both talking nonsense.

There is a big differece between adequate aand optimal.

How does infacol by-pass the digestive system then - I could do with a laugh!?

Stretch - will get MJ's autograph on my way to see Lord Lucan...

"Breastmilk has very low levels of iron" - breastmilk has the totally physiologically appropriate levels of iron in it!

A healthy baby gradually being introduced to a range of solids from the age of about six months will be fine, and we know this because it's been researched. There are no health or nutritional deficits in babies weaned at 6 mths according to the evidence - a few instances in very poor countries where mothers were v. anaemic in pregnancy and whose babies did not lay down a lot of iron mean the guidance has to be adaptable for individual situations, but that's not what Doris means, I don't think.

Talking about breastmilk having low levels of iron in it as a reason for early weaning is daft .

FGS, leave Doris alone. She isn't suggesting that everyone SHOULD wean their babies at 17 weeks, with no exception. She's only saying that if a baby is say 20 weeks and is literally grabbing at your food and salivating when you have your lunch, you don't HAVE to wait for the magic 6 months simply because the NHS says so. The 6 month mark is arbitrary, not a deadline.

Severe anaemia affects iron in breastmilk; mild to moderate doesn't.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18310187?dopt=AbstractPlus

Infacol works on the gas in the stomach. It has no organic effect on the body, or the digestive system. Lots of things bypass the digestive system, in fact - they enter the stomach but do not actually get metabolised.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simethicone

I would agree that it is misleading and could add extra confusion to many mums (and let's face it - weaning is confusing, especially when you're knackered and can't think straight!) However, I have a friend who had to wean her baby early as she wasn't thriving on milk and I know for some babies with reflux they can recommend this as a last resort. BUT, I don't think the place should be mentioning it so mums think it is acceptable practice as it does go against the WHO recs. The last thing you need is someone thinking 'ooh that's a good idea' as earky weaning is very much a last resort and shyould be done with guidance from a paediatrician.

Thank you Last Train - you have actually read this thread!

Incidentally tiktok, I never said iron deficiency was a reason to wean before 6 months, I said it was a positive by product if they child was getting on fine with food. To quote myself: 'if all these factors are met, e.g. - over 17 weeks, no allergies, otherwise breastfed, organic homemade food, no early egg/wheat etc, able to swallow and activley enjoys it - WTF is the problem with weaning at 4 months?'

None of you have come up with a reasonable reason IMO. I think the world has gone guideline mad.

I am now off to take out a high-risk mortgage because that is what the government recommended 'for the greater good' a few years back. Things change, research moves on, pious self-styled experts endure...

The 6 mth 'thing' is not really to do with allergies.

It's to do with what babies need - they really don't need solids before 6 mths (on the whole)and the large study published by WHO about 10 years ago showed this. I don't think there is any huge evidence that giving solids a few (note, few) weeks before this age is actively harmful to a baby, but babies really don't get much benefit out of them, and they really are better off on milk alone. So why bother?

Oh, and i'll deplete my own iron stores by breastfeeding my hunking great starving child, so that I'm too tired to bother weaning him. Come on, common sense people....

Thanks tiktok, I knew I had heard it from somewhere!!

I disagree LastTrain. Many, many mothers see 6 months as a deadline to wean by. Meaning that they have to start early to make sure their babies don't miss out!!

Also, grabbing at your food is not a sign of needing to wean. It's a sign that they are wanting to explore their surroundings! My 16 month old likes to grab DHs' cider bottle. He salivates and everything!! Should I wait until he's 18???

As I expected this thread has moved from my op quite abit. Anyway I went to the centre and asked if I could speak to the manager but she wasn't there.

The lady on reception said "is it to do with baby massage class? If so X has already said something and she(the baby massage women) is going to address it."

"Oh I said, that's good because I was quite concerned"

Receptionist goes and says "It will be for the full hour now, she thought 40 minutes was adequate because the babies get restless"

Me "no that's not what it was about!"

Anyway I'm going back tommorrow when the manager is there, so we'll see what she has to say.

Doris, I am sure you are well-meaning but this is really scaremongering:

"Apparently (according to afforementioned knob and 3 GPs) they are seeing a huge increase in the numbers of children being unnecessarily held back to the detriment of their development - the brain needs food, particularly iron."

Huge numbers of children being held back developmentally, because of lack of iron - and this is to do with starting solids at 6 mths?

RUBBISH

SatHere - well done for persisting on this.

LOL at misunderstanding!!

If it is all they need, why did my child suddenly and markedly develop when weaned? I think i had skimmed breast milk.

As said by another poster, what the hell do WHO know? They can only make generalisations, and 10 years is a long time ago.

You asked - 'why bother?' - I listed all the factors, and as a result of trying and succeeding, I know my child was better off with milk and food. She advanced beyond belief!

All the NHS info I recieved said 'Breastfeed until 6 months to reduce the risk of allergies', and that was the ONLY reason stated - hence my deviation from the (pretty weak)guidelines as we have no allergies.

I am off to give MJ and Lucan theur breastfeed and infacol... Serously can't believe the orange flavourings are ok, but the organic apple is not!!!!!!! Infacol is a drug known as Simethicone - "Simethicone is used in some detergents when foaming is unwanted.

Despite being useful in the treatment of gas, simethicone does not appear to be useful in the treatment of infant colic.(www.med.umich.edu/pediatrics/ebm/cats/colic.htm)

Simethicone is also used in the Biotech industry, fermentation process, to reduce the effects of shearing of proteins due to agitation."

I'll take my chances with my instincts, and leave the 'pick and choose' virgin gutters to it!

Most babies don't start solids at 6m, surely - even now, it's quite a "niche" thing to wait till 6m? That's the impression I get from RL and other parenting sites anyway. So all the "ooh, we've never weaned later and LOOK at all the fat kids with allergies!" thing is a touch misleading...

THat was me saying about the WHO. It was sarcasm.

Oh, Doris - skimmed breastmilk? Puhleez. And you think a bit of apple and rice made your child develop - how? Perhaps she composed a sonnet or three?