to think that mega early weaning should not be promoted at a baby massage class?

[SatHereSitting]

I take DS to a baby massage class at the local surestart centre, there is about 11 of us with the eldest baby there being about 14 weeks. Last week the subject of weaning came up and one mum said she had weaned her DS at 10 weeks and another said she had begun to wean at 8 weeks due to reflux.I was the only one who appeared shocked, and the other mums started to ask questions and seemed interested, saying things like "oh really, I might try mine then"

I knew this was wrong and without trying to sound judgemental I said that current guidelines were to wait untill about 6 months as a baby's digestive system wasn't really ready before then.

The Surestart leader however said "well they change the guidelines all the time, it was three months when I weaned mine, if they're hungry go for it".The group then continued to discuss early weaning, I tried to say again that it wasn't suitable but realising from the looks I was getting that I shouldn't say any more I shut up.

Anyway today the worker gives us a handout on weaning, which states on it

'It is vital that a mixed and varied diet be well established by the age of six months'

So AIBU to think that 1. This worker clearly shouldn't be encouraging weaning which at best is ill informed and at worst dangerous.
2.Shouldn't be talking about weaning at all it's a baby massage class. And 3. Shouldn't be giving us handouts that appear to promote early weaning and especially as the eldest baby is only 14 weeks, so nobody should be thinking about weaning yet.

I'm not sure what to do, obviously I am well aware of the guidelines but some of the mums who go are not. Should I speak to the manager and make sure that the worker gives out the correct infomation next week and tells the group that early weaning is not suitable?

[Nappyzoneisabeetrootrunner]

I would say something to the health visitor or centre manager in the centre not another worker of same standing just to ensure that the guidlines are filtered down properly.

[Doris123]

Totally agree that 8-10 weeks is too early though. But I wish people would trust themselves and their child a bit more when it gets to 4-5 months.

That said, i recently read about a mother putting cup-a-soup in a bottle for a 3 month old!!!!! No accounting for idiocy!

[hercules1]

Doris - could you provide a link please to where it says food from 4 months now on the nhs website.

[hercules1]

Still so many myths. Babies being held back developmentally because they've been weaned at 6 months. Please provide the evidence for such claims.
Bm has iron in it which is fairly easily absorbed by babies. Iron stores don't start to deplete (and then not all at once) until around 6 months.

[Doris123]

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Babies-weaning/Pages/Recommendations.aspx

Scroll down to where it says 'Foods to avoid before 6 months' - there are only 2 groups listed (certain cereals and certain dairy).

It is pretty casual, it just says 'If you decide to wean before 6 months...' and that they should 'never be intoroduced before 4 months'

If waiting until 6 months was so detrimental to the nation's health, I think they would have just cut this bit....

[LuluMaman]

I think that there should be clear cut , non contradictory weaning advice and a baby masseuse is not a weaning expert

no baby is ready for solids at 8 or 10 weeks

some might be ready aroudn 17 weeks

most will be ready around 26 weeks

if parents knew the true signs of readiness/lack of readiness to wean it would be better

the fact that jars/packets etc of baby food are labelled as from 4 months or 4 - 6 months is really unhelpful

[hercules1]

Maybe I'm being stupid but the page before the one you linked to clearly states that you should begin weaning at or around 6 months.

You said it now says food from 4 months is fine. It doesnt.

Of course as we can see alone from this thread there will always be people who dont follow what they say hence saying what to avoid before 6 months.

That isnt the same thing as saying it's fine.

[Doris123]

And yet more 'breast milk is adequete' myths. It hasx very low levels of iron, not enough for some large babies. None of this is new....

Show me the baby that was weaned at 6 months who eats a varied diet including red meat or dark poultry, and I will show you a one-off wonder. Most babies take at least a couple of months to get used to the food, swallowing lumps etc and are NOT on a well varied diet at 6 months. They are only just beginning with bits of fruit and rice - even less iron than BM.

[hercules1]

Please back up what you are saying about iron. Of course a baby at 6 months doesnt need to be eating lots of red meat.

What has the size of the baby got to do with it?

[hercules1]

Babies dont need to be on a well varied diet at 6 months. WHy would they?

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

Doris, that link does not suggest to me that the NHS is saying weaning at 4 months is fine at all, it seems to be saying "if you will do it before 6 months, fgs don't give them these foods"...

[hercules1]

lol at "fgs"

[Doris123]

I know that the page before does hercules1, because that is their main page. The page I linked to just states that you can wean after 4 months, and your child will not explode.

'Around six months' and 'After four', we are talking a window of 8 weeks. Even the NHS can se that it is rediculous to calander watch when the needs of children being met are the issue.

I totally agree about crappy fod labelling for babies and indeed all kids though. Personally, I'm beginning to think that baby food should be banned, but that is a different issue. I agree that it a money-spinner. Still supports the reality that weaning after 4 months is completley fine if the child is well and ready though.

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

But Doris, breastfed babies are much more efficient at absorbing the iron in breastmilk than those on formula. And babies are born with iron stores to last to 6 months. If what you state was an issue, we would be overwhelmed with anaemic 5 month old EBF babies, no?

Babies might need a couple of months to get used to swallowing lumps. If you start them at 4 months. Then they are capable of swallowing lumps at....ohhh I don't know? 6 months!?

[hercules1]

I think we must be reading two different things. No where does it say what you are claiming it to say.

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

Yea Doris, a window of 8 weeks might seem like nothing to an adult but to a baby of 16 weeks it's 50% of their life. It's not like it's nothing at that age.

[MoontheMightyThreadKiller]

I started to wean my very big baby (over 10lbs at birth) at around 19-20 weeks as his weight was starting to drop (after following a growth line perfectly) amongst other things. I exclusively breastfed up til that point. I felt he was ready, my HV was wary and suggested taking it slowly which we did and he took to it straight away. My DS1 was not weaned until about 6 months as that's when I felt he was ready.

Doris is right that these are guidelines and each baby is an individual but I would still say that anything below 4 months is not right.

[Doris123]

www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bradev/article/PIIS0387760402001481/abstract

O R

journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPNS%2FPNS63_04%2FS0029665104000758a.pdf&code =518dc6c195dae83be4a6c55bf429b91c

They make for interesting reading.

Many mothers themselves do not consume adequete iron = not enough in BM.

It is a thorny issue. I just personally wanted to know that I was doing the absolute best for my child, and I believe i did. We had a wonderful time weaning as i didn;t have to race to get her eating enought vitamins and minerals by a certain age. We were relaxed and tried a variety of foods, crossing different seasons. I am not a lentil soaking hippie, but I think about her diet in terms of natural readiness and availability, not dates deterimined by her birth date.

[Stretch]

All this means is that the NHS is damned if it does and damned if doesn't.

People moan that the government/NHS/"they" tell them what to do. THEN, they turn around and say the weaning guidelines are too casual and it must not be a serious risk if they include what to do if you do decided to wean early!!!

Loving that you don't "buy" into the virgin gut theory Doris! All a myth is it? What about moon landings? Elvis being alive? MJ not really dead..???? Cos people just make up this sort of shit, for laughs don't they? (the virgin gut stuff, not elvis being alive!)

[AnarchyAunt]

The first of those links says nothing about iron and BF. Its talking about the first two years, and a child should be eating a varied diet by 12 months really which should meet their iron needs. Don't see how weaning before 6 months will make a difference there.

Second one says 'link unavailable'.

[Doris123]

PfftTheMagicDragon you don't have to be anaemic to be iron deficcient. HTe sliding scale for iron deficiency is vast, and you could be very low before being technically anaemic.

Personally wouldn't risk it. It is more important to me that my child's nutritional needs are met. Nothing will convince me that if the child is over 4 months and is ready/able and interested, then it is best to still keep waiting.

Without wanting to get flamed - if all these factors are met, e.g. - over 17 weeks, no allergies, otherwise breastfed, organic homemade food, no early egg/wheat etc, able to swallow and activley enjoys it - WTF is the problem with weaning at 4 months? Have i missed something?

[hercules1]

Your second link didnt work for me.

I dont see what your first link has to do with weaning. Can you explain it for me please.

No, anaemic mother doesnt mean less iron in breast milk.

[hercules1]

Well your nhs link talked about allergies or are you only choosing the bits from your link you thought suited your point.

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

Yes Doris, fair point about difference between anaemia and iron deficiency but there is no good reason for you to "risk" worrying that your child will be iron deficient if you haven't weaned before 6 months. It just seems like rather a flimsy argument to me. Even if you do argue the point about iron in a mothers milk (ignoring the facts about your body serving the baby first and you second with regard to nutrients) this doesn't take into account that babies (full term healthy babies) are born with stores to last to 6 months and beyond of iron.

[Doris123]

Oh come on - virgin gut. Did your child never pick a blade of grass or daisy and eat it before the magic 6 months. I had to wrestle a dandilion form my 3.5 month old that had been a 'gift' from a toddler! What about the perfect poison Infacol and even Calpol or innocent gripe water and Ashton's powders - where do they fit into the virgin gut? It has nada space in real life. The virgin gut is just that, a theory - not got much to do with real life I'm afraid, unless the child is in a hermetically sealed ball.

I will re-paste the link if I can do without errors.

No sympathy for NHS - they worked themselves into this hole years ago when they changed the advice - all because of some vague potential link to allergies!

Incidentally, I live next door to MJ!