spanking a child in public

[sliverchick]

AIBU to want to intervene after seeing a mother slapping her toddler in a supermarket

I think you did the right thing not intervening after all, you have no idea what that day had been like.

Last night i had to call my mum to come take my toddler before i got reallly angry with him. I am 32 weeks pg and he is taking his toll on me, he kicks me, bites me, doesn't listen to a word i say, lays on the floor and kicks and screams if i tried to dress him, ripped the wall paper off the lobby wall, threw a glass at a man in a cafe - smashing it, soaking the man and everything around us, kicked the hairspray off the shelf in boots (and i mean all the hair spray, with one swift kick they went down like dominos)and he laughed. Stabbed the dog with a fork (plastic but she's tiny). I honestly have never felt like smacking his bottom before yesterday, and i think if we had a few days in a row like that i would do.

I had 3 babies in 18 months. Going to the supermarket is a day out Sainsburys have a trolley that carries 3 babies and I have to do 2 trolley shops, first for the dry goods, the load up the car. Next change the babies, then to the cafe to feed them all, have a cup of tea and a piece of cake and start the second round of cold and frozen food. On the way there the LOs would fall asleep and I would park in a quiet corner of the carpark and have a quick snooze myself (bliss) One day and elderly shopper commented to me "you need a pony to pull that trolle luv". So yes pretty I do have children.

So gero given that you are on record as saying that you can't bear to see a baby crying and you want to tell mothers that they must pick their babies up and comfort them at once if they are crying, what do you do when you have 2 or even 3 of yours crying at the same time ?

Or do you keep them all sweet by giving in to their every whim as you go round the supernarket ?

actually gero I think thats a fair question - you have a lot on your plate and a strong attitude to fairly normal child behaviour - tbh when I see a crying child and a harrassed mum trying to shop I feel nothing but sympathy - how DO you deal with it. It might be that you have some suggestions many of us could find useful.

Fundamentally I don't agree with smacking children, IME they tend to copy you and go around whacking others which is awful.

HOWEVER, recently DS2 - who steadfastly refuses to go in a trolley in the supermarket, making it stress factor 10 anyway - ran straight into a doddery old woman and sent her spinning. I totally lost it, don't know if it was fear, shock, the red mist or whatever but I smacked him on the arm and shouted 'NO!' very loudly. I was pretty shocked with myself. I lost control. It was wrong. But if a member of the general public had took it upon themselves to berate me for it, it would have tipped me over the edge.

YABU to judge under limited circumstances but YANBU to think assaulting children is a bad thing.

interesting thread - if it was a different "slapping" situation would you intervene? If you saw a man slap a woman would you intervene?

In general I disagree with hitting kids - but I've done it myself when dd just pushed me to the end of my tether - its not somehting I'm proud off - and I would NEVER slap her in the face.

Where do we sraw the line with intervening? What level of abuse are we happy to stand by and watch?

I think anything that is legal ,which is only 'reasonable chastisement of a child' .l'd not intervene. So slapping child bottom legs etc OK.Hitting head , using implement I would intervene.Hitting another adult I would intervene .

I think YANBU to want to intervene.
I feel the same way but am never sure what the best approach would be and fortunately have never witnessed what I would consider really unreasonable physical force being used against a child.
Those of you who have intervened how have you approached the smacking / shouting parent? I presume whether they are having a bad day or are just a generally shouty person or one who feels physical violence against others is reasonable, your intervention is not going to be very welcome.
What do people think is the best approach if you witness smacking or horrible shouting at a child in a public place and really feel you want to say something to the perpetrator?

A slap across the face is illegal I would have called 999

It always surprises me. The people who will hit a baby/child are the very ones devastated when their partner hits them a slap.

I wonder where they got the idea it was okay??

What a ridiculousn thing to say noisy.Are you saying its a woman's own fault if her partner beats her ,because she has at some point spanked her child's bottom?!!

hitting a child, either in public or private, hard enough to leave a mark is illegal
as is using an implement
hitting a child arounf the head is very dangerous
all of the above should be reported but it would take a brave person to confront someone doing this in public

guys i really think some of you are missing the point i am trying to make here , we are not talking about a slapped bottom or a stressed mum shouting at her dc
A HARD SLAP ACROSS a toddlers face is totally out of order IMO
it has made me pysically sick to have witnessed this ,

Noisy -what a disgusting thing to say.

YANBU to want to intervene but i dont think you should, you never know what type of person they are and could have been assulted yourself. If its illegal then i think the police should be called.

I personally dont agree with Slapping, hitting or screaming at a child, voilence breeds voilence as far as i am concerned.
I am a mother and have a DD who is 7 and i can honestly say i have smacked her leg once and i cried afterwards. However i know a mother at DDs school whos own DD shouts and screams in her face that she hates her, now there have been plenty of times i have throught ' if that was my DD i would smack her bottom right there infront of everyone'. would that be wrong?

Slapping a child around the face or head is not acceptable in any circumstances. How would that parent feel if they had been slapped around the face i'm sure they wouldnt like it one bit.

Noisy I would like to know what you base that statement on. Where do get your ideas of what type of person slaps a child and what type of person gets hit by their partner? Eastenders? The Daily Mail?

Victims of domestic violence are as diverse as the rest of the population Many women who have suffered abuse would rather cut their hands off than hit their children. Some are stupid and selfish, some are rich and clever, some are young, some are old, some are even on Mumsnet.

Most people who smack their kids dont do it because they think its a good idea. They do it because they loose control and feel like crap for doing so. Not many would think it was ok, most would be devastated at their behaviour.

Of course a hard slap across the face is sickening. I still do not think it is absolute evidence of a terrible parent who regularly abuses their child. They shouldnt of done it. They probably are very well aware of that.

They could be terrible child abusing monsters. How do we know?

chegirl i stared in shock at the mother & she knew full well we witnessed her slaping the child across the face , but it didn't seem to bother her in the slightest , she did not look flustered like a stressed out mum would , after she did it she just carried on with her shopping but her poor lo looked like he was going to make himself sick with crying , we have all had to cope with tantrums, just felt so sad for her ds

Ive had my moments with my DD, remembering back, there was a time when 2 days after Id had my premmie son, he was in SCBU, she was 2 and we had to go to the supermarket just to grab bread and milk. anyway, she wouldn't put her shoes on, then screamed blue murder getting in her car seat, then screamed all round the supermarket after Id had to tie her down in her buggy. I tried everything from bribery to calm talking but nothing worked. I was tired, stressed and dizzy with anger, and I snapped, took her out of her buggy and smacked her bum-hard. An older lady approached me, she didnt get cross about the whack, she could tell something was wrong, and just asked so kindly if I was ok. I burst into tears on her and felt awful. She was so kind that she bought my DD a colouring book and we sat in the cafe and had a chat, I think it may have saved me that day.
But working in retail, Ive seen awful things, once a girl of about 7 wouldnt leave the shop (big toy shop), so the woman she was with told her she was a fucking bitch and dragged her by the hair. Made me feel physically sick, but I was preg at the time, and I had to ask myself whether the risk of assult was worth it, and I figured (in the few secs I had to respond), it wouldnt have made much difference to approach.

But monkeyface she wasn't being naughty was she.I understand that it is maddening and slightly embarassing when a kid is constantly screaming round a supermarket.But it isn't being naughty ,its just expressing their anger .It isn't osomething you have to solve ,I would have just let them get on with it !!

Exactly, my point was with everything else going on in my life I just totally snapped, my head was banging and fuzzy. At the time, I irrationally thought that she was being awfully naughty by demanding things and tantruming. I was just sharing my experience that sometimes you dont know the bigger picture. Mine was a one-off, never to be repeated, but anyone who saw it would not have known that! FWIW, slap around the face is disgusting.

I was in the Algarve one year and witnessed a father verbally abusing his daughter (10 yo)in a restaurant. His wife was there as were 2 other children. They all were staring at the table in embarrassment. No one intervened even though the restaurant was full of families. It was awful . I wanted to intervene, as did dh, but we thought he would simply lay into her physically back at their apartment or hotel. The abuse and threats lasted for about 3 or 4 minutes. He was an obvious bully to the whole family by their reactions.

Of course you did silver its sounds pretty horrible.

I was making a more general point.

I once saw a woman hit her son (about 10) so hard he went flying into a plate glass window. Luckily it didnt break.
I DID intervene. It was an instinctive thing anyway - she hit him so hard I blurted out 'Jesus Christ woman!'.

She told me to fuck off etc. She was a mean bitch and it was clear she thought she had every right to assault her son. She didnt smack him she back handed him into a shop window.

When I say I intervened - I guess I didnt. I told her about herself and made sure she knew what I thought about her but I didnt call the police. I wonder what wouldve happened if I did? She wouldve denied it, the kid probably wouldve too. Other witnessess wouldve been long gone.

But maybe the family were already known to ss and the police being called would have lead to some intervention from them.

It was a long time ago and I didnt know the things I know now. I think if I saw it today I would probably call the police for the reasons above. I doubt I would stand in front of her and say I am going to call the police on you but I would do it discreetly and ask for their advice whilst keeping and eye on the family.

But that was a specific event. Each circumstance is different and you have to treat it as such. Its never easy knowing what to do at the time, always easier in hindsight.

I ran after a man on oxford st who was dragging and slapping his child aged about 3 or 4,i was so angry i was yelling stop it you bloody big bully or i will call the police,he told me to piss off,but he did stop,dont know what happened behind closed doors though
My dad was very abusive,used to beat me up all the time,but never in public,he would just whisper"no-one around later remember" which would call a halt to any of my so called bad behaviour.This is what gives me hope when ido see people spank their kids,i like to hope its a one off loss of control and not proper sustained abuse that is usually quite hidden.

YABU to have done nothing when by your own admission you wanted to intervene - it seems somewhat cowardly to me.