to be fed up that every thread that mentions controlled crying turns aggro?

[tinierclanger]

I know we're not meant to do threads about threads but it's a recurring theme. Every time it crops up, people get nasty with each other.

Now, I have considered CC and decided not to do it for my own reasons. I think it's great that people post information and their opinion on whether its good/bad/helpful/unhelpful. And that can help people make their decisions about it, and also to adjust their expectations (which has helped me a lot).

But a lot of the time, people posting on the sleep threads are desperate. If they have tried other things and just can't cope, it's harsh to attack them and make them feel guilty. Sleep deprivation sends you crazy. I would rather a parent did CC than ended up harming themselves or their baby because they are just SO TIRED.

if the kids cant sleep ive always found that bringing them to the sofa putting something gentle on the tv giving them a dummy and cuderling them usualy will stop tears and send them and me to sleep! i think its just about them feeling safe

I did CCing. Sort of desperation (he was terribly colicky) but also I didn't know any better and it's what my mum told me to do.

People telling me it's harmful or cruel etc doesn't bother me, because DS in now 2, a great sleeper and a happy sunny typical little boy, and I fail to see that it can be cruel. It's not like I left him at 3 days old to fend for himself in the wild!

I fully plan on doing it with DS2 when he comes out as well.

I think the point is, it works for some, it doesn't work for others, we as a support forum should be providing the tools and advice, and NOT bullying and upsetting. I don't believe there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way.
All parents do the best they can with the information they have available. It is our job to provide the information - even if it differs.

Mintyy - 'The breastfeeders now have the good grace not to harrass and judge the formula feeders.'

Just wondering if you are being sarcastic by 'good grace' or if you are actually a breastfeeder and being serious?!?!

Not being sarcastic. Not sure I understand why you would think I was being sarcastic actually but, anyway ...

A while back this site was notorious for terrible slanging matches between formula feeders and breastfeeders. That seems to have calmed down now, with the pro breastfeeding lobby appearing to realise that it is antagonistic in the extreme to criticise people for choosing to formula feed. So instead they just tend to state the case for breast feeding and not harrass or judge mothers who formula feed.

I was a breastfeeder.

Hth.

Mintyy - sorry I think I may have read your comment in the wrong way.

It sounded like you were being quite patronising by saying that you had the good grace not to judge the formula feeders but now that I have read it again I think you are meaning that its good that the breastfeeders no longer judge or criticise the formula feeders.

Im just new to this site so still getting to grips with things but dont like to think that anybody judged the formula feeders ! Everybody has different reasons for formula feeding!

Anyway, this thread was about something else, I didnt know what CC was so I was just being nosey and read the whole thing!

It's just heated debate isnt it? Who cares if people get nasty, tis just the internet.

For the record i'm pretty much on the fence about it. Never done CC but then my babe is pretty easy so I don't feel qualified to comment.

No worries LMM.

I tend to be brief with my posts .

morriszapp: "The thing is though trinity, has anybody ever changed their mind about something so personal and emotive as CC because of a well put argument on a forum?"

I don't know about changing my mind but definitely recognise from anecdotal evidence on mn that CC works very well for some babies and their parents.

I was very much of the attachment parenting mould ie anti-CC. My children would never have put up with CC without a titanic struggle. But then I found out that other babies would cry for less than 10 minutes and then settle. Or needed a small cry before settling. That sounded quite painless.

So I modified my view.

tinierclanger - may I just say well done and thank you for an extremely well-written, thoughtful and rational OP on a very emotive subject!

I didn't mean that to sound patronising, by the way!

I did cc with both my kids - from a few months old. I'm not planning to have any more children, but if I did I would do cc again. Without hesitation. I would support anyone who chose to do it.

If you do it "properly" you are not being cruel; you are helping your DC learn how to go to sleep, and sleep is good for children!! And their parents!!!

I would not condemn anyone who chose not to do it either. Freedom of choice and all that.

The following is not a condemnation or a judgment , but it is an illustration of what can happen if you don't deal with sleep problems when they arise:-

My SIL thinks that I have scarred my kids for life by doing cc. (They are bright, sunny, confident kids who are happy to go to bed, love snuggling under their duvets and ASK to go to bed if they are tired). She has 3 kids who never get more than 6 hours' uninterrupted sleep each night, if they are lucky, In the last 4 years she and her husband have not spent a whole night uninterrupted in their own bed as the kids keep waking them, and their oldest kids (aged 10 and 6) are regularly still not in bed at 10.30 p.m. on a school night. None of the kids spend an entire night in their own bed. Ever. SIL and her husband are permanently exhausted, both suffer from terrible stress & associated health problems. I cannot emphasize how knackered they both are.

Mintyy, I think you aren't quite being accurate with your representation of the bf/ff threads of old...

i agree with hunker. there were a few 'pro bf' people who made very rude and insensitive comments but in the main it was and is more about defensiveness rather than attack.

Oh well I must have imagined it then . It doesn't matter now, does it?

mummydragon - Ditto.

I know sooooooo many parents with similar problems, kids not going to bed until late, climbing into bed at 3am with parents etc, but we can now put DS to bed (he is 2), read him a story, sometimes he goes to sleep a few minutes later, sometimes he pulls all his books down and reads quietly and then puts himself to bed... between 7-7.30pm every night.

I don't know enough about things to say that it was BECAUSE of CCing that he is so good/easy now, I can only go on my own experiences, and I do think that people that are so anti CCing maybe aren't doing it properly OR it just doesn't work for them. Either way I am due in 5 weeks and will be doing it again!
But I really can't agree when people are so negative about it. It can work very well!

As someone who would NEVER, EVER consider CC with my PFB, I ended up doing it with my second at 5 months. Why? Because sleep deprivation had driven us all to a point where someone (in all likelihood the baby) was going to get hurt. We were all desperate (I later found out that DH had been discussing with my mates how to get me to a GP as he thought I was in the throes of PND - but it was pure exhaustion.)

I don't think anyone undertakes CC lightly - but often its the last resort of the truly desperate. Having had to go through it was bad enough - being berated here would have really tipped me over the edge.

A request for support or information or personal experience on these kind of topics is not the place for polemic. Maybe the mud-slinging can be hived off to a more "theoretical" thread. But there are some who seem to enjoy lighting the blue touch paper - whatever the topic.......

try starting a thread on Cry-It-Out

So if someone is asking advice about how to do something that you genuinely and seriously believe to be wrong, damaging and mostly ineffective, you aren't allowed to suggest alternatives?

It surprises me that people have such strong views on controlled crying.

I think there are some circumstances when it is a good idea (when I have spent all day cuddling / feeding / winding and need to get things done / sleep) and there are times when it is a bad idea (when I have done everything / slept and he is still crying).

Personally the middle ground seems the sensible to me and it works - at the moment.

I haven't really noticed much aggro on sleep threads for ages.

On the contrary, compliment to the anti-cc people, from what I have seen their advice has been quite measured of late.

yanbu. I did cc with dd1 as she was waking up to ten times a night having previously been a good sleeper. It took two weeks. I did not go into it lightly and the first few nights I was crying on the other side of the wall. But I have MS and need my sleep. A few weeks of her crying a bit at night is better than her not having a mum as she is in hospital having a relapse!
Also IMO it is safer to leave them to cry in their cots than to fall asleep with them on the sofa.
Would've done it with dd2 as well but the reason for her waking is itchiness from excema and if we left her it would be a bloodbath from the scratching. And that is why I love my sky plus box!