to really want my toddler to have the swine flu vaccination after I was seriously concerned about the MMR

[tryingtobemarypoppins]

DH thinks its a bit rich of me........

I would guess katiestar is implying that not giving MMR = relying on everyone else to vaccinate = freeloading. Or freeriding...?!

Wonder how long they normally spend testing the 'seasonal' flu vaccine? After all, it's a different one each year and they normally only know (guess) halfway through the year which strain is going to dominate that winter....

I presume a freerider is someone who doesn't get their child vaccinated but relies on the herd immunity from those people who do get their children vaccinated.

(Whilst also putting children under one year, or who cannot have vaccine at risk - but that's another well worn argument...)

Thanks PrincessToadstool, you put that just right!

I am totally for those at risk not having the mmr which is why I think those who arent should have it. I dont think it's controversial for those not at risk to take it.

Thanks for explaining freeriding.....I guess herd immunity not going to work with vaccine for swine flu......

I stand corrected sorry - did read your post as saying you hadn't given MMR and I see now that wasn't what you said at all. Still think you are applying a bit of a double standard to this but will stand down the vaccination hound squad

The 6 year old didn't die of swine flu - it was reported today she died of natural causes.

And as for the vaccine, no way are my family having an untested vaccine that is being reported to contain squalene (which was the component of the Anthrax vaccine that caused Gulf War Syndrome).

The last major flu epidemic resulted in more people dying from the vaccne that the flu. I wouldn't be surprised if there was the same outcome this time.

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no herd immunity wouldn't work for swine flu - you'd need to have 98% of people vaccinated before the unvaccinated could be protected - by the time that happens the risk is you would probably already have got it.

Herd immunity for measles has built up over 20 yrs - different scenario.

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missamiss HOW ON EARTH DOES A 6 YEAR OLD DIE OF NATURAL CAUSES??????????

Yes, I said I completely understand why people at risk shouldnt take it hence why those not at risk should. Actually, I couldnt care less either way tbh.

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I don't know of any disease which presents a lower risk than the corresponding vaccine - that would not be a cost effective or scientifically sound approach.

Sorry I didn't realise Flu was natural -sorry.

www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jYE0RCv0SThVhX6jA-hmdecVD-ZA

re: the fact that potential vaccines have not been tested yet.

A lack of data would be normal for any emerging influenza virus as a vaccine can only be developed in response to a specific threat. The testing and approval process for such vaccines is standard and accelerated compared to other types of medicine:

www.emea.europa.eu/htms/human/pandemicinfluenza/vaccines.htm

The regular flu jab is offered to people with pre-existing health conditions such as asthma, or history of pneumonia, and people over a certain age (60 ish I think). I'd imagine the swine flu jab will be prioritised in a similar way, with healthcare professionals included.

As to whether I'd let the ds' have it (fwiw ds1 had the MMR jab and probably has mild ASD, ds2 will be having the singles jabs), I really don't know.. am very wary and will watch this with interest.

ooooo I sound a bit thick now.......

And all emergency service workers too.

TTBMP - I have no idea. I just read the outcome of the autopsy.

Surely it's not possible for more people to have been killed by the flu vaccine in the last epidemic than died of the flu itself? 21,000 extra deaths occurred in the UK alone in the last biggish seasonal flu epidemic (1999 - 2000) and I'd be amazed if that many people had died from the flu vaccine in this country without my hearing about it.

My asthmatic children have had seasonal flu jabs every year and are fine. The basic components of flu jabs, I guess, are pretty consistent, so I would have thought it would be no less safe than a typical seasonal flu jab.

I dont know the stats, but I assume that vacs suchas MMR are effective, due to the fact that measles etc no longer kills, blinds, deafens hundreds of children each year.

And, as many people keep pointing out, people die every year from the flu, some of them without any previous risk factors. It's just not reported in the same frenzied way.