to expect others on the bus to offer their seat / show common courtsey to a heavily pregnant woman?

[babyball]

This refers to two occasions. Once, where an elderly lady came onto the bus and no-one would stand up for her apart from myself (at 32 weeks pg and with very noticable bump). No-one offered to stand for me however, and as the bus was rammed, a couple of ignorant arses rammed their massive rucksacks into my bump on the way past causing considerable pain. I was so angry hot and bothered, I burst into tears as soon as I was home. The second occasion, was sitting next to an elderly gent (not that elderly and certainly mobile). When I asked him to move so that I could get off the bus, he moved his knees to one side. Asked if he would mind getting up momentarily, he said, "Nah, you'll be alright luv", meaning I had to squeeze past him shoving my bump against the bus rail hurting my already extremely sore belly-button. Sorry for the rant, but has no-one any bloody consideration any more?

No, of course I don't. I was trying to make a point in a (possibly unwisely) black and white way. What i was trying to say was that she can ask nicely for the seat (and a poster here quite rightly said that often if you commute every day you don't even notice the other people getting on and off, so it isn't just rudeness) because she actually needs it. or she can ask in a way that implies that she thinks she has more right to the seat than the person already sitting in it simply because she happens to be pregnant.

However, telling someone you might wet yourself, then standing really close to them is probably a good way to get them to move for you

Thought you might all like to hear about the delightful woman I encountered on the bus home from the hospital this morning:

I was sat in a priority seat on a virtually empty bus, against the window, so I wasn't taking up extra room. This bitch delightful woman came to stand next to the chairs and said in a very loud voice, "These seats are for people who need them, not those who just can't keep their legs closed." I was absolutely gobsmacked at how rude she was!!! So shocked that I unfortunately couldn't come up with a witty responce... Damn...

Erika That's appalling! What is wrong with people?

I found people to be unbearably rude when I was pg and travelling across London twice weekly, actually found tourists to be the worst - I was barged aside by a young French woman on the Tube but managed to stick my foot out when she got off the train so she stumbled onto the platform. Very irresponsible, of course, as she could've fell under the train (if she'd tried really hard) but it made me feel better at the time.

Since having my dc I found people to be very accommodating and pleasant though - will almost always be offered a seat when travelling with dc (usually have dd in a sling and ds in buggy, or ds in backpack and dd in pouch sling/wrap) but I usually refuse as it's easier to stand when i've got the sling(s) on!

I would always give my seat up to someone less able than myself, and will be bringing my dc up to do the same. My mum would make us move/sit us on her knee so someone could have our seat. A little bit of consideration goes a long way.

queenofthenewyear, i also think you should expect courtesy, that we should all expect courtesy...but I don't think that being pregnant necessarily means you have greater need of a seat. I mean, i don't think that being pregnant necessarily means being 'less able' and in need of extra 'consideration'. Although, i fully accept that sometimes it does.

Sometimes on London buses and the tube (it's funny that in other cities people actually still queue for the bus and get on in an orderly fashion!) everyone is barging and pushing. they aren't being any ruder and inconsiderate to those who are pregnant than those who are not - they are just being rude because everyone else is. In which case it is not feasible for pregnant ladies to expect the rudeness to byepass them particularly because they are expecting a baby.

I'm afraid I never used to give up my seat for pg women on the train before I got pg myself so I suppose I am now reaping the rewards of karma, in that I?ve been offered a seat about twice, ever.

To be honest, standing up for a 40 minute stretch on the Tube is so unpleasant I would much rather keep hold of my seat. I also freely admit that I selected a seat quite far from the doors so that if a seat sacrificing situation does come up, it wouldn't affect me.

If I do desperately need to sit down I?ll ask but I don?t really expect it tbh. Most people simply don?t notice. Also, I know it?s unfair but when you?ve had unsuccessful fertility tx it?s irrationally upsetting to be asked to give up your seat.

I have taken to diving onto the train before anyone's got off in order to avoid the crush and grab the last available seat.

Have to say that I always got a seat in rush hour on the tube and bus when pregnant and not in the rush hour as well. (In London). Generally most people were very nice.
I would always offer a seat to a pregnant woman. I've had 2 'easy' pregnancies but it's still knackering and not nice to be flung around.
The people who get on my nerves are the (invariably) older ladies who moan at the size of the buggies on the bus (wasn't like that in theor day etc etc). The drivers will only let 2 on anyway so whether there's 2 MacLarens or 2 Bugaboos doesn't make a difference. If I didn't have a Phil and Ted's I wouldn't be able to go anywhere- as I almost told the moany lady the other day (but we were miles from my stop and diddn't want to get in a row...)

On the issue of expecting people to give up their seat, I have no issue with this. What goes around comes around, and I am always one of the first to give up my seat to someone in greater need than me. That's a very basic and reasonable expectation IMHO.

Trellism - slightly concerned by the comment "Also, I know it?s unfair but when you?ve had unsuccessful fertility tx it?s irrationally upsetting to be asked to give up your seat.". Yes, it is irrational and unfair to take it out on other pregnant ladies. Sorry to hear that you've had this problem, but ffs, is that any reason to let a heavily pg woman stand if the journey is 40 mins?

PS: after my initial rant, a very nice young man offered his seat on the bus today. My faith is restored (at least somewhat).

If she asked me, no, it isn't. But I deliberately chose to sit where I won't have to move, so the issue never really came up.

I've been commuting into the City for about 7 years and although I'm pg now, I don't expect anyone to roll out a red carpet for me. As I said, I accept it as karmic justice.

fourkids I have to say I disagree. I think people should offer their seat, and if you don't need it, then you can always decline.

It's a matter of common courtesy

But I didn't say that people shouldn't offer their seat to a pregnant woman.

I said that a person shouldn't expect someone to offer them a seat just because they are pregnant.

they are not really the same thing. the first statement is about a person being courteous and kind and considerate because they are that way inclined

...whereas the second is about someone having an expectation that they should be treated differently to other people (in fact better than other people) just because they are pregnant - not because they have other problems that make standing more difficult for them than it is for other people, but just because they are pregnant - which may or may not make it harder for them to stand than it is for a bloke with a bad ankle, a woman with a headache after a hard day at the office, someone with backache etc etc.

Fourkids, isn't the mere fact that a person is pregnant making standing more tiring? I have had the easiest pregnancies in the world and still find your argument pretty difficult to follow.

Must I be about to 'wet myself' before being considered to be a special case above the average commuter?

Why shouldn't a person with a bad ankle be entitled to expect to have a seat offered to them if they make their condition clear? Would you refuse on the basis that they have no greater need than a pregnant lady?

I hated having to use public transport when pregnant. It really shows you the horrible side of humanity.

The worst time was when I was 8 months pregnant with ds3, and had ds2 in his SN pushchair. Bus not so full, myself and another pram on the bus and wheelchair gets on so I had to share the other prams space. Not a big problem, but I had to park my pram where there was no seat and stand holding it as ds2 was kicking his legs against bus and making the pram tip. I asked the other pram woman if we could swap places so I could at least sit down and hold the pram, she just looked at me, smirked and looked out the window for the rest of the 30 minute journey. She even had the cheek to ask me if I could move my pram when she wanted to get off.

Fourkids: I disagree with you. I think it IS reasonable for a pregnant woman to be treated differently from someone with headache.
I am not sure about trains in the UK, but certainly here in Japan there are stickers on the windows above the priority seats on trains and buses with pictures of a pregnant lady, a lady holding a small child, a passenger with a broken leg and an elderly person. Also with writing stating that those seats are reserved for such passengers.
Yes, ultimately, there may be a travelling pregnant commuter who happens to feel in greater physical form than a fellow commuter who has a migraine or hangover on that particular day, but as those seats are meant for pregnant ladies (and the other categories I just mentioned), expecting to be able to sit in them before an able-bodied commuter is EXACTLY what should happen!

Sorry - didn't mean to imply there that pregnant women weren't able-bodied - of course they are.
I think it's a matter of safety too as various other posters have pointed out. Sadly we cannot expect people to be naturally courteous (as my experience in an earlier post and others' posts have highlighted) but we can at least expect surely that a seat meant for a certain category of person is given to them?

Well on London Underground the stickers make it quite clear the priority seat is for people who are elderly, disabled, pregnant or less able to stand. If people sit in that one they must accept they're at risk of having to give it up, that's what it's for.

The point about being pregnant is that (in the late stages at least) it's obvious. In early pregnancy, or if you have a migrane, or are feeling faint, you would need to say to someone, I'm sorry, I'm pregnant / feeling unwell / have arthritis - may I sit down please?

Actually, I'm 36 weeks pregnant and no-one could be in any doubt. But regardless, if people don't jump up, I always smile and ask. And I've never had any problems doing so (well, apart from one occasion in early pregnancy when I wasn't showing but was feeling faint). It's when you wait for someone that you end up disappointed. Best to get in there first.

Pennybubbly,
'as those seats are meant for pregnant ladies (and the other categories I just mentioned), expecting to be able to sit in them before an able-bodied commuter is EXACTLY what should happen!'

and with that i absolutely agree - priority seats are priority seats, but to be fair, initially this post didn't appear to be about priority seats.

After ending up in hospital because some twunt pushed me out the way on the bus when I was 5 months pregnant and trying to get off the bus with 2yo dd, I would gladly say -

"Does anyone want to give me their seat as the next bump we go over may result in me wetting my pants?"

However it has taken me a few incidents to get up the courage to be able to say something like this.

As someone on this thread has been punched, others ignored, the general feeling is that people are pretty bloody selfish. People are so introverted these days and block out the world around them.

If someone needs a seat more than I do, that is visible, like pregnancy, elderly and disabled I would never grumble, I would get up without a second thought. If someone asked me for my seat and didn't explain themselves, I would probably give it to them as they may have an issue they don't want to broadcast to the whole bus (obviously not if I was pregnant).

I've been on crutches on the Tube and train quite a few times, and I'm usually offered a seat (normally by men as it happens, but sometimes women too). I think the problem with pregnancy is that lots of men genuinely seem unable to tell the difference between pregnant women and slightly overweight women, at least up until the 7-9 month point, and so they're reluctant to offer a seat in case they embarass themselves and the woman in question. I've never seen anyone refuse to give their seat up if asked; in fact, on the few occasions I've seen someone ask for a seat because they're disabled or pregnant, they usually get a few offers.

Reading this thread makes me want to go jump on a bus just so I can offer other people my seat. It also makes me feel outraged for everyone who's suffered the appalling rudeness / thoughtlessness evidenced by other commuters. And finally, it makes me feel slightly ashamed for occasionally being, I suspect, one of those seated people nose deep in a book who doesn't take notice of more needy individuals standing nearby.

MN will make me a better person yet

Public transport in pregnancy was such an eye opener for me and really made me realise how self-absorbed Londoners are. The lack of seat giving up for anyone shocked me - but I realise now there must have been plenty of times I was so occupied by my book, newspaper, conversation, thoughts, whatever, I didn't notice there was someone who needed the seat. It made me feel saddest for those who are older or have disabilities - having to deal with that constant lack of consideration and concern must make just leaving the house seem overwhelming. I now spend journeys looking for people to give my seat up for

My pregnancy wasn't too bad, so I was able to deal pretty well with the fact I was offered a seat all of about twice. And I agree with Fourkids that being pregnant doesn't always mean you need the seat more than someone else - but when you are sick, hot, tired and a bit vulnerable, the lack of kindness - that sense that no one will help you if something happens - is grim, grim, grim.

What I found fascinating was who did/didn't offer seats. Young women of London, you are a pretty vile lot - I can't count the number of times I saw some girl barely out of her teens let some gent give way to her at the Tube doors without an acknowledgement, leap on and then grab the last seat with a sense of immense entitlement - even if they had just been standing next to heavily pregnant me on the platform or then had a bump right in front of them. Generally, the more artfully accessorised they were, the least considerate. I could have smothered them with their freaking trilbies (but I just wished horrible future pregnancies on them instead ).

Now that's interesting, because I find it's the young women on the tube who are about twice as likely to give up their seats as young men!

Sorry haven't read the whole thread (don't hurt me!).

Fourkids, I'm sorry - I think you are the most unreasonable kind of YABU on this thread (as far as I've read, natch).
You've had an ok time being pregnant on public transport, so you can't see why it should be different for anyone else. You've had four children, are experienced about being pregnant, so obviously end of argument? You are only experienced at being pregnant with your pregnancies. So, that means diddly squat to anyone else, frankly.

The status quo should be that you see a pregnant woman, you give up your seat. Is the onus really on the pregnant woman to explain why she needs the seat, only to be judged by the person occupying it as to whether she's given a good enough reason or not? Rubbish. This is the route to a horrible, selfish society. One that won't help you when you need it.

independiente that's a bit harsh. I've actually given up using public transport if I can help it because I find that I get panic attacks if I feel I can't get out. (like being trapped in a window seat on a bus by someone taking the aisle seat.) I need to sit towards the front of a bus but most of that area is disabled/ priority/ wheelchair space. When I've managed to get the one sideways non priority seat I always get someone glaring at me and eyeing it up.

A couple of years ago on a crowded P&R bus a woman my age strap-hanging in front of me suddenly said she felt ill and needed to sit down. My son jumped up and gave her his seat (the other teens around us looked the other way). We got talking and she said she had the same problem I did. She couldn't get to the doors and was having a panic attack that she wouldn't be able to get off.

In the eyes of the young pregnant we would be a pair of non- disabled middle aged women taking up seats.

I think we've all missed the big point which is that when you have paid to use public transport, at great expense, there should be enough seats for everyone wanting to travel and nobody should be standing. Why do we put up with cattle class?

independiente, I don't agree. Like Elvislives says, there can be all sorts of reasons why someone is not automatically getting up:

*they simply haven't noticed you (must all commuters scan every new passenger to see whether they are pregnant or not?)
*they have noticed you but are too tired/disabled/hungover to stand for you
*they have noticed but aren't sure if it's a bun in the oven, or just too many buns
*they are pregnant themselves(!)
*they are just an awful person like me.

In short, if you need a seat, ask. Even a dreadful selfish pregnant witch like me would get up if asked.

Having said all that now I plan my journey to work so that I avoid crowded trains and would rather crawl home over broken glass than get a bus, so the issue doesn't come up much.