to think parents shouldn't bring their child up vegetarian?

[Picante]

Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!

I'm not anti veggie btw. I've spent most of this topic defending vegetarianism,I just think Flub's remark about not killing a chicken in that situation is nuts.

same here

in fact, I do find excessive meat eating morally reprehensible in this country and given the current state of the planet

I would like to see those South American beef herds drastically reduced

am just not prepared to concede that it would be better if you live on some barren rock or in an Arctic forest to have vegetables and pulses air-lifted in at huge cost to the planet, because you are too precious to skin an animal "with your bare hands"

I find many things offensive - I am not sure whether you can argue that a vegetarian diet is unnatural but you can say with some authority that a diet heavily based on intensively farmed meat and dairy (I need to cut down dairy but I bloody love cheese)is unnatural.

We are omnivores but the volumes of meat/ fish products consumed today are excessive. The vastly depleted state of the fish stocks in our oceans and the rates of heart disease in the west are testament to that.

I have never argued that a vegetarian diet is unnatural; instead I keep repeating on this thread that we ought to eat more vegetarian food in this country and that the vegetarian argument for this country seems very strong to me

that's why we got the allotment

what I do find is unnatural is eating lots of air-lifted food though ( do wish I could wean myself off bananas- I know they're organic, but they've still got to get here)

Where was that argued Cory - it is obviously ridiculous to imagine a veggie inuit. Of course any diet needs to be sustainable.

Sorry Cory - don't mean to be getting at you - you do sound elemently sensible - I think this thread has made me tetchy ... and on the defensive.

Don't Banana's come on boats (mine do in my weekly veg box)

that's all right, bigmouth; the unnatural argument was put earlier and not by you

I forgot to say good luck with your interview Flub.

Any parent decides on a diet for their kid. It's usually their own. That holds true for meat eaters and veggies. The only difference I can see is that a lot of meat eaters make the assumption that a veggie diet is abnormal - that the gold standard way to eat is their own, and anything different is forcing a lifestyle on the child. The parent who feeds their kid beef is also making a dietary decision. That's true whether or not the decision is made consciously, and it's not any better a decision as far as I can see - there are undeniable health risks to processed meat products, humanely produced meat and dairy is blardy expensive, and environmentally speaking plant based foodstuffs are always going to be less energy intensive. It's a valid and responsible choice, even if it is apparently quite hard on the gut to eat meat as an adult if you've never eaten it growing up. I'd be a damn sight more worried about the dietary choices of people whose kids never see any fresh fruit or a home made meal, if I were inclined to worry about anyone.

I'm a meat eater, by the way, and therefore so is my son. But I still think YABU.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think it is wrong to force a child to eat meat, let them decide later if they want to eat it or not.

I was brought up a vegetarian and my two kids are veggie - fine, if they want to eat meat when they are older and they make an informed choice, no probs. My dh is a meat eater and he sees no probs with our babies being veggie until they make up their own minds.

Being a veggie is such a non issue for me as it's just not a big deal that I don't eat meat or fish.

'Lions, foxes, tigers have sharp teeth, sharp claws, and the ability to run fast.
Do you? No.'

Man has a brain and finds a way around it.
Human teeth are designed to eat meat. Cutting at the front, incisors for tearing and molars for grinding.

Flubdub-I am sorry but you have never been anywhere remotely near starvation and to say that you wouldn't eat chicks is a nonsense-I think survival would make you eat them raw. Throughout history people have eaten rats-insects and whatever it takes. Maybe you think you wouldn't and maybe you wouldn't but you can't say for definite, in a holier than thou way, when you simply don't know.(and hopefully will never, ever find out) I don't think any mother would let her DCs starve when she could feed them-not when survival really kicks in, which isn't after only a week with no food.

I eat a lot of vegetarian meals-it is the way that I afford to eat humanely reared meat. I use pulses, nuts etc and there isn't a single vegetable I dislike. I have nothing against people choosing to be a vegetarian and bringing up their DCs that way, but on the understanding they choose. If I was a DC all this talk on 'disgusting dead flesh' would turn me into a raging carnivore as a reaction!
The countryside isn't one gigantic, pretty country park with 'sweet' little animals like a pets corner. People are earning their living in a completely natural way-the way that was first started when people started settling instead of being nomadic and following the herds.
I would hate to have a country side devoid of animals, where you could only pay to go and see them in farm parks. Would all these pigs and cows etc want to become geriatric and who is going to pay the vets bills for all the ailments that are age related if they are just going to be cremated when they eventually drop dead? Even humans are wanting to be able to choose when to die if they lose their quality of life.I would have thought a short, happy life was much preferable.

more about the teeth

this is the age old and often religious related topic isnt it

imo we do tend to give to our children what we eat
im a total veggie and so are my boys but my dh is a meat eater...im a total christian and i raise my boys this way dh is more skeptical.

just preference i guess i dont lie to my boys about anything if they ask i tell them even about facts of life and "mom where does meat come from" if they see a pig and a child asks them they know thats whats in daddies sandwiches on a weekend morning

i love the fact they choose there own way i give them the baseline facts so they know

i know pisces the countryside isnt a giant petting corner and i really do agree with your points
but eating meat is dead flesh and its just my choice not to do that or eat it

my boys help me with seeding and taking care of our crop and pick the veggies when needed they know all about where the lot comes from. we dont shop at supermarkets or buy ready meals we bake all our own bread and cakes and biscuits.....maybe i live a little different to other people thats all

when we visit a farm shop they dont see a pig and think oh there going to kill it they think its sweet and all ,
we can appreciate the animals and love them we just dont eat them but we dont moan at people who do....

Milk and cheese are 'unnatural'? What are they then? Sythetic. Like bread?

Other animals have no problem eating other animals milk - it's just washed down with the rest of the host animal too.

yuk

I think veggies should bring up their DCs without meat, but not worry when they get offered it elsewhere.
I explained right from babies where chicken etc comes from.
I agree with riven that milk and cheese are unnatural things. The calf is taken away from the mother and fed formula milk so that the natural milk goes to the dairy! I think that if I were to be a vegetarian I would go the whole way and be vegan.
I would like someone to explain to me what happens to the farm animals, and who pays the huge vets bills if they die a natural death and are cremated or do we let them become extinct? Do we not care that we never see lambs skipping around the fields in spring? In which case what happens to places like the Welsh mountains? What happens to the countryside when fields aren't needed-dry stone walls can go? The whole country side will disappear under polythene because the it will multiply vastly the need for vegetables.

I said they eat it along with the animal, Riven

and, is the issue milk or parasitic creatures? Becasue there are a lot of them.

'Milk and cheese are 'unnatural'? What are they then? Sythetic. Like bread?'

Have you ever heard a cow crying for it's calf when it is taken away?! It is far worse than being killed for the meat. If there was one thing that I would do from an ethical point of view it would be to stop eating dairy products.Killing a pig is quick-taking a calf away from it's mother is long drawn out!

Oh and dogs and cats

pisces, actually it takes a lot less land to grow vegetables than to raise animals (remember animals have to eat for years before we kill them so they're much less energy efficient). This is one reason why a meat based diet is so bad for the environment and one reason for the destruction of the rain forest.

Qually, well said!