in wanting to put a fence down the middle of our shared garden?

[whizzed]

We live in a row of terraced houses. Each house is divided into two flats, and each house has a garden which is shared between the two flats.

The garden has a path down the middle, which is the boundry line (the left side for the bottom flat, the right side for the top flat), and a washing line over the pathway - one end for the top flat, the other end for the bottom flat.

I really hate the lack of privacy. The upstairs neighbours don't really use the garden, but I hate it if I'm out there playing with DCs or having a picnic or whatever and the neigbour dodders out to hang out his washing and I have to make polite conversation.

Would it be unreasonable of me to errect a fence down the middle of the garden, so that we would have our own (albeit very long and narrow)private garden?

No other garden in the terrace has done this, and I know that it may well be looked upon as rude and antisocial. We've only lived in the flat for a couple of years and the neighbour has lived here for over forty. What do you think?

Maybe this is your neighbour?

here

If you are allowed to build a fence, then I don't see why you shouldn't.

(But I have a feeling you won't be allowed to.)

It is something you really should have thought about before buying the flat, I talk to lots of people on the bus, in shops etc. but no way would I want to share a garden.

I take your point Nekabu, but I'm not trying to stop him using his section of the garden at all.

A fence / shrubs will make no difference whatsoever to him. Other than he might think that's it's rude of me.

I understand where you're coming from but agree with others that the whole fence thing would be very awkward. The washing line sounds awful though - I would hate that. Why not suggest that you buy two rotary lines with covers that can be folded away (and kept clean - he'd like that!) when not in use so you could have on your own sides rather than each other's washing flapping the whole length of your patch. Would also mean that when either of you is dealing with washing it's just in small area of own patch rather than strolling up and down the whole area - just a thought. You could also put in a more private screened area e.g. put up some trellis round the sandpit area and grow something up it to make a more private bit, without carving up the whole space.

I still think this is a wind-up!

We bought when I was v heavily pregnant and thus not really rational and v desperate!

We should have thought about how much we would dislike it, I agree. But we didn't and now the situation is making me unhappy. I am trying to find a practical way to improve things for myself.

Obviously I don't want to upset him, but nor do I want to feel ambushed and stalked (even in a fairly benign way) in my own garden.

I grew-up in someting similar to your set-up but they were purpose-built maisonettes and therefore the gardens were bigger and had fences. Due to the size of the gardens the fences were about adult waist height (anything else would look obtrusive and cast too much shadow) and it made very little difference to the privacy. Not only were you cheek by jowl to the neighbours but you could also see the man 4 doors down pegging out his undercrackers too.

I am sure my parents craved more privacy but they tried to be friendly to everyone and it does give a chance to model good social interaction in front of kids (grasping at straws).
Suppose what I am trying to say is that a fence will give little reward for probably loads of offense to the neighbours.

It will make a difference to him - it will make the garden feel smaller and may affect the light, depending on how high a fence it is.

I wouldn't be wild about this arrangement and can see where you are coming from but really putting up a fence would be completely OTT.

Try to empathise with the poor fellow. I think it must be one of the most awful things to be lonely and elderly and our society treats such people so badly.

On the flip side, if garden could sensitively be carved into 2 private areas then would actually be much better for resale and you could sell it to him like that - I saw an episode of Relocation Relocation or similar where the couple viewed house divided as you described with garden carved up into two areas one behind the other (back one reached via a path down side - did look a bit odd) but they were happy as their bit would be just for them. Have you spoken to him or poss the wife or son about it? Could say it's your problem, you feel self conscious etc etc and see what they say.

If none of the other properties have done it, there might be something in the title deeds that prohibits it ?

That's a very good idea Mrs EricBana, thank you.

Sadly, it's not a windup Frasersmum, i wish it was!

Dittany, I'm not saying that I never want to have to see him. I say a polite "hi, how are you?" to my neighbours on the other side over the fence and very occasionally have the odd conversation, that's totally fine.

I'd like something similar with the upstairs neighbor, not this having to have a conversation daily.

I can see how you might have thought would be fine when you bought it. When we bought this house (before kids) I was happy that it had the 4 bedrooms I thought we'd need but totally overlooked the fact that 2 are on top floor and 2 in basement, and of course could never put small children in basement so far from us in the night. How did I not register this?

Children miles away in the basement sounds like bliss to me

Well it would be for me but don't think they'd be too keen!

'tis good when my mum comes to stay as she doesn't have to bump into dh in the night with her curlers in

I think the shrubbery plan is a good one

I know how you must feel

I feel awkward in my garden as even though we have a fence my 2 very quiet retired couple sit out in their garden listening to me screech at the children when we're in the garden

I always feel

the other day ds was going on about how he needed a big poo, I knew they were inthe garden and I was trying to shush him and then he chirps up 'hello x and x', it was mortifying, they said hello back and are very friendly but I wish we were detached, lol

hi whizzed , ok don't quote me on this but dh & i have looked into this lately (low wall on 1 side of back garden joining onto next door neighbours garden which their kids climb over & drive my dc mad) as far as we understand the law (in ireland) states that it is legal to put up a wooden fence as this is classed as a temporary structure ie can be removed easily, whereas you might need permission for a brick wall . hope that helps

Similar here bigchris, but even worse was the other day when dd was calling for me from the garden and ds also in garden shouted "Mum can't come now, she's on the looooooooo" - great

FWIW OP I dont think YABU at all, I was in the same sito, just wanted to be able to wander into my garden in my nighie in the morning knowing that Id be alone! We, luckily had a HUGE garden, so I said to the guy upstairs (who has turned out over the last 3 years to be the most amazing neighbour!) that I wanted to divide it properly to keep the kids safe, so I knew where they were and could see them at all times. He had no issues at all, just said yeah no problem. Our property is also leasehold, but I spoke to the managing company and they basically said to me they have bigger things to worry about than a bloody fence, so do what I want as long as they dont get complaints. Not everyone will be this lucky, but its worth a try!

I think planting shrubs is a good idea - not as blunt as a fence, and yet it might allow you to like your space more.
Many of the responses you've had, OP, reveal a classic case of 'let's all jump on this horrible, mean poster (but my goodness we're glad we don't have to live in that scenario!)'.

You probably wouldn't be allowed. I have a shared back garden with the flat upstairs and when I asked about putting a fence up the middle so we had our own defined side I was told no, as it's shared therefore both properties have access to the whole garden area.
My upstairs neighbour also doesn't use the garden at all and the garden is tiny. It does make me wonder about what will happen when someone else moves in and we all want to be out in the garden at the same time, we'll sitting on top of each other!

haven't read the entire thread so apologies if it has already been said, didn't spot it on my quick scan through.

could you put the fence up and say that you need it as a safety thing for your dcs and use them as the excuse, rather than saying it is to give you privacy?

I really wouldnt do this. It sounds like it would ruin your relationship with him and really spoil things- and would be more upsetting for him as he is old and probably lonely.
Besides - wouldnt the washing get stuck on the fence if there was a breeze?
If you REALLY have to section it off then plant small small shrubs or something (low level though - nothing more than about a foot or two).