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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..in admitting I'm sick of the PTA ?

115 replies

runningonthespot · 23/06/2009 10:04

Yes every school needs them and I certainly do my bit to help out with a bit of time, a bit of home baking for fairs, and a bit of money etc BUT does anyone else have the experience that some of them - and I really don't mean all of them - are in it for the wrong reasons. Like getting favours for their kids or brownie points for being martyrs? Just a thought...

OP posts:
purpleduck · 23/06/2009 17:22

oos???
OOPS!!!

ABetaDad · 23/06/2009 21:26

Me and DW are sick to death of all the events, fundraisers and so on. We are on the verge of just telling the DSs school to stick £100 on the annual bill and be done with it. We pay fees so why have we got PTA fundraising?

The only thing the PTA need to do then is send round a questionnaire asking for ideas of what the money should be spent on.

Job done. [grumpy old git emoticon]

ingles2 · 23/06/2009 21:36

agrees with Abetadad.....

ingles2 · 23/06/2009 21:38

actually in all seriousness, I'm not sure I'd be keen to donate loads of dosh and time, to a fee paying independent school. Surely that should come out of their fees.
What is the money used for ABD?

ABetaDad · 23/06/2009 22:03

Ingles2 - it is used for stuff like electronic whiteboards, climbing frames etc.

I would not mind so much say donating my tme to paint the schoolgates or my time reclaiming a garden space for the children that has become overgrown. Both need doing.

Its just the whole silly business of fund raising. WE PAY!

I notice Grumpy Old Women is on BBC2 now.

Merrylegs · 23/06/2009 22:08

ABD - the government (courtesy of our taxes) spend around 4 grand a head to educate primary pupils, 5 grand for secondary (slightly more in Scotland I think). So to get value for money in a private school you would need to be paying more than this.

However as there are usually less kids in a private school, there is, ergo, less money coming in to pay teachers salaries etc (although I guess the pay would be less, seeing as private school teachers don't have to have a teaching qualification. I digress).

I guess it would stick in the throat to pay over and above the fees BUT what about the joie de vivre; the camaradarie; the extra curricular fun for your kids?

Come on.

Everyone loves a fete!

ABetaDad · 23/06/2009 22:22

Merrylegs - I don't mind paying. Its just the whole rigmarole of fund raising. WHY?

We had a lovely sports day recently, we paid for lunch and drinks. No problem, we watched the kids, we got sunburned, we got food, we got sozzled. Every school has a Sports Day but why do we need a plethora of 'fun days', 'muffty days', 'barn dances', 'bingo nights', quiz nights' all in the name of fund raising?

The extra curricular fun we also pay for as separate fees for school trips etc. There is no 'joie de vivre', camaraderie in fund raising activities. I just want to send a cheque and chip in with practical hands on help painting, chopping, lifting, digging, etc.

bea · 23/06/2009 22:36

i agree with everything soupy said and with a cherry on top... !

Saucepanman · 24/06/2009 00:13

Am with soupy, COV et al on this. I am vice chair of our PTA. We had a circus event last weekend- 3 shows over 5 hours. We had precisely 3 volunteers from a school with about 650 pupils. And 2 of those were the chair and myself. Same goes for the ball we are organising in 2 weeks- oh no we have 5 helpers for that. The ball raised £7k last year and we spent it on a trim trail and gazebo. We now have zilch!

I do it because I am time rich but cash poor at the moment. I like being actively involved. A friend of mine is very anti-PTA and sneers at everything we try to do- to the point of being rude- I am tempted to would never suggest her child should not use the things we buy from our fundraising. Maybe the whole PTA-clique thing is a myth? Maybe we're not that bad!

ingles2 · 24/06/2009 09:56

we have a plethora of fairs/fetes/cakesales etc because the LEA just don't have the funds, to buy the adventures playgrounds, the whiteboards, the gardens, the decent sports equipment.
Most parents just don't seem to realise this, they don't understand (or stop to think) that 85% of school budget goes on staffing. I'm sure they'd be quick to notice if there was nothing in the playground to play with, no balls or goals for sport though.
And the PTA clique is a complete myth... yes, you get friendly with the people you're talking to, maybe it does look like an impenetrable group occasionally, but I reckon most parents use that excuse to assuage their guilt as they just can't be bothered to get involved.
As for your fundraising ABD... I find that odd tbh... why don't the school just increase your fees to cover the cost of things an independent school should have? Do you ever wonder if you are getting value for money if you are fundraising for the same equipment as your state school down the road?

Polgara2 · 24/06/2009 10:43

COV am also in awe at 20K! We are a similar size school but haven't raised that much - how on earth do you do it?

Agree with ingles we need the activities to pay for the extras that the children just wouldn't get without them. Also the children ENJOY doing all these fundays etc. It is hard work being on the PTA sometimes but my children are getting the benefit of what we do so it is definitely worth it.

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 10:54

ingles - agree with what you say. Our fees are quite low but not staggeringly low. All it would take is an extra 1 - 2% added on the fees but specifically ringfenced to a pot so that parents had a say on what it was spent on.

ingles2 · 24/06/2009 11:03

I think they're banking on competitive parenting then ABD.
I'll see your villa in France and raise you a helicopter flight kind of thing.... what you've only bought a hundred pounds worth of raffle tickets???? Little Johnny's dad bought £200!!!
I really couldn't stomach paying fees and then raising extra for the fabric of the school. What are the benefits of sending your dc's there then ABD?

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 11:25

Its a really good small private school, lovely atmosphere and over 90% girls so our two DSs get plenty of sensible girl focussed learning. Not complaining about the fees but just do not need to go through the fundraising rigmarole. It is just time consuming and all the annoying PTA politics gets my (and DWs ) back up.

I can see why a state school would do it but as we are paying anyway we may as well just bung it all on the bill and have done with it.

It is not quite in the 'villa in France and helicopter flight' category of private school. I do know one just like that though.

ingles2 · 24/06/2009 11:54

wow!
you chose a school for your boys that has 90% girls!!!!!! wow!
do they mind?

tegan · 24/06/2009 11:57

I am chair of the playgroup committee and vice chair on the primary school committee and i must say when it's good it's good but it can be terrible, ainly frompeople who think it is clicky and dislike you for this when they don't evren know you

Clary · 24/06/2009 12:01

Yeah we all want CoV?s top PTA fund-raising tips don?t we.

We manage about £8k maybe in an infants school of 200 pupils. V middle class area too

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 12:13

ingles2 - lots of parents say "wow do they mind?" and also "ooh you are brave!"

Me and DW find it very amusing and really are not at all offended. It is amusing because we have quite deliberately chosen to send DSs to girls schools/nurseries throughout all their lives so they have always been in a minority.

Our DSs do get lots of boy focussed sport actvity though as well as mixed sport activity with the girls so they do not suffer at all. What is noticeable is how well regarded the boys are by the girls and their teachers all regard the influx of the boys as a positive thing as the school just went mixed this year. In fact, when I say mixed, in the Pre-Prep classes the boys are in extreme minority sitting literally alone with just one boy in each class.

ingles2 · 24/06/2009 12:22

well as you're very kindly answering my very nosey questions ABD... Can I ask why?
This is very interesting... sorry for the hijack OP btw...
I have 2 boys, they used to go to a very small village school, where boys were in the minority. They now go to a much larger junior, with plenty of boys and also heavy on the male teaching staff, inc the head and deputy. It has affected them much more that I would have ever anticipated and for the better. They are more confident, social and generally happier. DS1 is a typical boy, my youngest is not at all. Surprisingly he has probably benefited from the move most. But obviously this is just my experience and each to their own etc etc.

chubbleigh · 24/06/2009 12:49

Ripeberry - I do both, nursery trustee and school PTA, they are very very different, don't rule out PTA it is a lot lighter work, baking etc. helping with special events for the kids.
I identify fully with what a nightmare it is when head of nursery is not around and then leaves with lots or work undone, that happened to us too. Nursery/pre-school committees can be a real heavy weather, I nearly gave up but decided to continue so others with children in the centre did have crap service.

Coalman · 24/06/2009 12:57

ABetaDad do you have a Grounds Group? Perhaps you could form a breakaway group to take it in turns with the chopping, painting, digging, etc.

Our Grounds Group and our PTA do not speak. No one knows why. I have heard there was once an incident. I suspect it is a rumour spread by the grounds lot to avoid being roped into volunteering for the school fair.

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 13:45

ingles2 - in answer to your question "why?"

The first reason both DSs went to a girl heavy nursery, Pre-Prep, Prep was because we were lucky to have that available in the places we have lived and they were well regarded institutions so it was not as if we were picking poor schools.

Having identified the opportunity, we then made a positve choice in that direction because we liked the calm focussed thoughtful atmosphere of the girl heavy schools. A stereotype but it was true in those girl heavy schools compared to the 50:50 mixed ones we looked at.

We did experiment last year sending the DSs to a mixed 60:40 boy:girl Prep but it was a disaster. Both suffered academically and often came home unfocussed, unhappy and with their minds in chaos. We grabbed at the chance to move them back to a girl heavy mixed school that had just gone mixed this year. Indeed, if they had been the only boys in the school we would stil have done it.

By the way our boys are 'typical boys' but what is really noticeable is how orderly their minds are at the girl heavy school. I know it is a stereotype but the atmosphere is very noticeably orderly, polite and responsible at their current girl heavy school whereas at the boy heavy school last year it was noisy, frantic and a lot of mean physically violent behavour.

Our DS1 (9) tends to play with girls who are interested in his complicated adventure games while DS2 just does not think about it and plays wth anyone. They both hardly played with girls at the boy heavy school last year because any boy who played with girls were immediately called 'sissy' or 'gay' or 'in love'. The girls also stayed away from boys as they were frightened of the violent play.

It is a wholly more positive atmosphere at the girl heavy school this year. The girls are even quite physical with the boys and certainly stand their ground in arguements and debate. Great stuff!

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 14:14

Coalman - what an interesting idea.

Forming a 'Grounds Group' would be a nice social activity though I suspect the fact that there are salaried ground/maintenece staff at the school would make them pretty unhappy that parents were doing their job. redundancy fears etc would no doubt follow.

That said, its not like the actual paid ground staff make the school spotless. There is plenty to do.

Coalman · 24/06/2009 14:31

I think that our Grounds Group have an allotment. They definately have a wheelbarrow.

The caretaker does not let them shovel the snow inside the school gates (health and safety), but they do the street outside school.

They paint murals and stuff, and did a willow den thingy. Probably loads of stuff I don't know about.

bettyjack · 24/06/2009 14:37

My thoughts -

Mums in the PTA and their kids to get special treatment.

1 girls mum is involved in everything and her daughter is always the lead role in the plays is always the first to be chosen at everything...

I have honestly felt that if I want my child to be noticed I have to join the PTA but I it is just not me, I would only want to do it for the right reasons not to gain points etc.

On last years fete one of the main PTA memebers won the 1st prize in a raffle of a nintendo wii! There was over 600 tickets sold....seems a bit dodgy to me to be honest.

I always find that the children that have parents in the PTA do get listened to more and less pointed the finger at.

If my child is talking with other children (mums in the PTA) then my daughter will get told off if though the other kids are doing the same.

At the end of the day the teachers treat them diffently as they know the PTA talks to the head and therefore if bad feedback is given back then they could lose their job.

I hate how it is at the school but I always feel that the the kids that grow up with parents like that will be shot down in the adult world when they realise they have to work hard for anything they want, not get mummy to sort it out and get it for them.

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