to think that teachers really shouldn't make a judgement of a child on their name alone?

[Coochicoo]

I was speaking with a teacher at a mother and baby group recently and we got to talking about names. When I told her my daughter's name she said 'ooh, every little girl I've taught with that name is lovely', and when she heard my son's name she pulled a face and sucked the air in through her teeth and said 'they're all buggers in my experience'.

I've heard similar things before about boys with the same name as my son, and it upsets me a little that he may be judged by his teachers before he even gets to class. And if he does do something a bit naughty, as all children do, he'll be living up, or rather down, to the low expectations of him.

I don't expect teachers to pass judgement on any name, whether it be a positive or negative judgement. Surely they should see the children as individuals?

I like the sound of the name Kevin

Ah, nostalgiaville!

It was a thread exactly like this that brought me to mumsnet from the TES forum...five? six? years ago.

I don't think there is a substantial name-based prejudice going on among teachers - really, they have much, much more to think about.

George - not necessarily

Go on, Pointy - what do you assume

It must be something or other, just wondered what , I promise not to hold it against you! Just amusement.

when I said 'not necessarily', I meant that it would probably depend on the area of the country the Groegd in question lived in. I went to school with a George, he lived on a farm, very ordinary boy. So I wouldn't jusge Geoprge.

In England, maybe George has different connotations, maybe it's a very Hnery sort of name. I don't really know. Hence, 'not necessarily.

Let's not get sucked into this whole name-jusgy-serious thing

crikey Pointy, have you been on the vino? Try the preview thingy maybe....

Let's drop George for debate. To me it's a yeoman farmer, solid bloke, sense of humour, rufty tufty sort of chap, and thus far DS is living up to it.

DS asked me this evening what I would have liked to have been called if I was a boy. I said "Harry"

I don;t do preview. I post, quick as a flash

you don't say! you mean you point.

you lost me

you're a pointy dog, so you point presumably! Quick as a flash of course

Gosh, I haven't had so many responses on an OP since I asked for opinions on the name Walter on baby names (wonder what response that name would get from teachers? )

You're all right of course, she probably was just being tongue in cheek. I think that perhaps she ought to keep her judgements to herself in future though.

And yes, I do judge on hearing names too, and I myself would probably initially negatively judge children (or maybe the parents of children) with made-up or creatively spelt names. But I wouldn't voice my opinion to the parent.

Now that I'm not feeling so het up about it I'll read through hat tes thread for amusement

dd name on the nice list thats ok,did not see ds1/ds2 name on ??

It must have been a lighthearted comment. No intelligent person would make a serious judgement on a name.

I know three Joshuas. And they're all "a handful."

We do make judgements on names. Course we do. That's why we think choosing the "right" name for our baby is so important and we post about it on MN.

I will no doubt make a judgement about the baby who is about to be named Kenneth or Leonard (from a names thread this week) if I ever meet him in RL. And it won't be a good judgement.

"It must have been a lighthearted comment. No intelligent person would make a serious judgement on a name."

Really?

Consider the following names-

Henry
Phoenix
Aleesha
Macy-Rae
Kallum
Cordelia
Bracken
Chantilly
Sophia

Would you REALLY not make initial judgments about the parents of these children?

I agree, seeker. It's so disingenuous to pretend that people who judge names are being unreasonable - everyone does, most just don't say it aloud.

Of course we all do it, teachers or not...

As long as the teacher isn't saying it to the child themselves...."well, I knew you were going to be a brat as soon as I heard you were called Ryan chuh!" or to the parents, so what?

And so many systems are in place in schools to make sure children are treated fairly, so many justifications for every mark given, that the Ryans and Chantelles are hardly going to be discriminated against I'd have thought.

(btw, I'd have thought Taliesin was the lovely little boy on Child of Our Time)

In my experience only certain "unusual" names make you wonder what the parents are like because the names are so weird.

Names like Rio, Pagen, Armani, Jaydee, Shanelle, Rea, Remy [surname Martin] and Jack [surname Daniels]. Imagine what the other kids will think of poor "Remy" given the term's slang connotation.

I've not yet come across a Donna Karan or Chardonnay though!

Every Joshua I have taught has been lovely. Just to redress the balance.

I know plenty of teachers who have dismissed names for their own children because of a particular child - but not writing off all children with that name. It's only a name.

my dc all have to spell their names and so far other than dd not been another one and no their not made up names , and the only one similar to dd is of course the spelling that was made up by a certain Eric Clapton

I wouldn't make a judgement on those names, Seeker. Are we saying that posh, educated parents call their children Anne and Sarah and Henry and the 'uneducated' pick unusual names? That's bollocks really. While there may be certain trends in certain social circles, there'll be so many exceptions that inferring anything from the names alone is a fool's game.

My kids have gone to private schools and the names of their friends have really run the gamut from the traditional to the very creative with no real trend towards any kind of behaviour from either end of the scale.

The only possible space for guessing is if their name is very obviously linked to a particular nationality, religion or subculture... or perhaps very obviously mispelled. And even then, I don't think you could predict behaviour or temperament accurately.

hmm im neither posh nor common and my kids names are differnt but my eldest ds are half italian so their names reflect that my dd was named for a very close turkish friend and ds3 reflects my irish side ,

so Riordan what would that say to you

and lol yes my mn names is Phoenix and it is my rl middle name
blame hippy parents and no not outed it as i never use it rl .

i know this thread is a wind-up, but the "teacher" is probably right, i'm guessing the boys name is Alfie, or Harrison/Riley or any other surmane used a first name.

I've known four Joshuas: two are delightful boys. One is a bit of a 'limb' as my grandma would have said, and one is a scamp, but good-hearted and good fun to have around.

oh well at least when ds goes school ill be prepared for the possibility of the judgement on his name. He is a 'handful' but also very sweet. Quite funny as a name i like is on the oh no watch out list lol. I must like naughty stereotype names lol

carmen - names can you loads about someone's social class, ethnicity and age.

I know a child called Beyonce, one called Jamelia, another child called Harvest, one called Rio, a Chardonnay, and Shadene (pronounced 'Chardonnay' ), a Blessing, a Victory, a Shanake, a Te Keisha, a D'Shaun.

Guess where I live: deepest Surrey, or South London?