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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to insist children remember to say please and thankyou at the table even with their parents in tow?

66 replies

AcornOnmyfoot · 18/06/2009 07:43

I constantly have a stream of guests for tea. I have a large family and (popular?)dc always being asked/asking to have friends back, and I am very welcoming, lots of freshly homemade food (sometimes!) baked beans and sausages etc (when I'm too busy or can't be arsed to make more of an effort.

Anyway, what I do insist on is the dc say please and thank you and if they forget I remind them (ages range from 3-10).(politely of course)

I recently had parent here whose dc I brought back from school and they all stayed on for tea, I reminded their ds (aged 7) to say p and t in front of parent and thereafter they prompted dc.

OP posts:
fraggletits · 18/06/2009 11:02

mumsie - you're probably right. Maybe if your friend had said 'hey watch where you're going' to that child then the child may have said sorry or it might have prompted the mother to point out to her child that he should apologise - in a 'look what you've just done.....' way.

.....but if your friend was demanding an apology then that probably got the mothers back up.....because it's taking control away from her.

2rebecca · 18/06/2009 11:02

I would remind my children if they forgot. I would remind preschool children if round at our house. I wouldn't humiliate a school age child in front of their friends or parents though. To me that is worse manners than not saying please or thank you. I think some people are more into the letter of good manners(always saying please and thank you) than the spirit of them (considering other people's feelings and not being rude).

junglist1 · 18/06/2009 11:13

If I was there I'd be telling my children to say please and thank you. If I wasn't there and they forgot I'd be more than happy for another adult to remind them.

fizzpops · 18/06/2009 14:23

With the example of the child running into an adult as above it is difficult to judge, but assuming the parent was there and about to say something to the child I disagree that it was up to the injured party to say something.

In that situation I would pause and see if an apology was forthcoming from mother or child and if not then insist on one.

pagwatch · 18/06/2009 14:32

I think that the English are pretty obsessed withthe notion that please and thank you are the begining and the end of manners which is tosh.

I have a friend who barks 'please!' at any child who requests anything however beautiully they ask and yet rewards the parrott like repeating of 'plaese' even when tagged on the end of a demand made with no eye contact and no genuine manners.

So DD would say 'oh those cakes look lovely. Could I really have one of those Mrs buttclenchwoman' and would get "well only if you say plaese" by way of reply.
Her DD would then say "I want the biggest one and the pink one....please" and she would get fawned over for beautiful manners while my DD would have felt admonished. Her DD would also gloating shout "you didn't say PLEASE. Mummy she can't have one because she was rude and didn't say please".

I know which one I prefer. And i know too which child now is the better behaved in company....Her DD still constantly corrects people as if manners are a trick designed to catch out those who don't know the rules rather than a way to encourage us all to be gentle, considerate and appreciative of one another.
Very odd IMO. And farking rude.

karalathecamel · 18/06/2009 14:44

I agree with pagwatch - please and thankyou can be important but there's a whole other load of stuff to be unwound too.

mulranno · 18/06/2009 15:10

I think when the parent is there you should wait for them to interject...if they dont then that is their family values. If parent not there would say something supportive and encouraging..believe that adults should guide children but not if their parents are there

ChippingIn · 18/06/2009 15:10

Depending on the situation - how long you have the child for, how often, what your relationship is with the child etc, but if it's a child visiting for tea from say nursery/school - then I definitely wouldn't pull them up on it, IMO that is very rude, whereas a child in that situation forgetting to say please or thank you is more likely just being distracted by the environment and I wouldn't make them feel uncomfortable for forgetting - totally not worth it.

These 2 little ones say please and thank you nearly all of the time and I'm constantly told what lovely manners they have (far better than my own!! I think most children are better than adults!) So that it's not that I am against teaching good manners, I just don't feel the need to 'teach' visiting children. However, if it was a regular, might as well live here, kind of a child - then they'd get treat the same as I'd treat my own

Acorn, your OP has a very 'how perfect and popular am I' tone to it, which I happen to find more offensive than a child not thanking me... so, I guess, each to their own.

PinkTulips · 18/06/2009 15:13

yep, i do it to other people's kids and if anyone offers my kids something they prompt them too if they forget.

takes a village to raise a child and all that

i think it's valuable for my kids to see everyone else insists on P&T too and it's not just mommy being mean.

pagwatch · 18/06/2009 15:17

But as I said before, I don't insist on P&T - so not everyone does! I do like to see manners but I think pointing out poor manners is, in itself, rude.

ChippingIn ...

My mother used to do that hideous 'taaa' think at my DCs when they were little [shudder]. I find if people are being overly ostentatious about please and thank you I get really tempted to put my feet on the table .

My children have lovely manners ( although I am not perfect or popular but they learnt that becuase I am always polite to them and to DH and vice versa.

PinkTulips · 18/06/2009 15:24

pagwatch, that post has made me think... while i do insist on manners and asking nicely it's not the words 'please' and 'thank you' that i insist on, if dd asks for something nicely i count that as manners but if she barks 'i want x,y&z' at me i say 'could you ask me nicely please dd'.

i think i do insist on some variation of thank you but again, it's more to do with the attitude and the sentiment than the rote reciting of words.

pagwatch · 18/06/2009 15:26

@ Pink

I am being grumpy about this.

I have ishhooos - probably from watching DD getting ticked off when she is very sweet. Ignore me ...

BonsoirAnna · 18/06/2009 18:03

"I do like to see manners but I think pointing out poor manners is, in itself, rude."

I agree . Having taught DD to ask whether she can get down at the end of a meal, I now need to teach her not to ask if another family is present and their children get down from the table without having asked first... complicated ...

ll31 · 18/06/2009 18:06

Wouldn't accept rudeness but wouldn't prompt other child for please and thank you s .. esp in front of parents - its like as if you're then emphasising in front of them how rude you think their child is!!!

GentlyDidIt · 18/06/2009 18:29

ll31 "as if you're then emphasising in front of them how rude you think their child is"

Thank you - you just said in 20 words what I tried to say in 200!

thedolly · 18/06/2009 19:05

Bonsoiranna I've just asked my DC what they do at other peoples houses if their children get down without asking. They both said unequivocally that they would still ask as it is showing a good example. Should they not ask? You are right, it is complicated .

traceybath · 18/06/2009 19:13

Totally agree with pagwatch - there's more to having nice manners than just saying please or thank you.

I may say it to a guest child as a reflex as am constantly saying it to mine but wouldn't deliberately correct another child if the parent was there. Its up to the other parent to instill manners in their child.

philopastry · 18/06/2009 19:47

Agree with Pagwatch and ll31.
Have been on the receiving end of this kind of correction from another mum and I did find it rude. My kids are 3 and 5, they say P & T about 50% of the time and I remind them about 25% of the time and choose not to the rest of the time. That seems reasonable to me.

mrsruffallo · 18/06/2009 19:50

I wouldn't be very happy about you doing that Acorn. It's cringeworthy and puts everyone on edge

nannyL · 18/06/2009 20:05

YANBU

I expect good manners from all children who talk to me... weather their parents are there or not.
I will tell my charges off in front of their parents if necessary.

on monday i was with my best friend from school... and her 6 year old... i was buying crisps / ice lollies for everyone and my friend was waiting outside the shop with the dog, in listening distance.... 6 year old was talking in a stupid 'baby' voice and i told her in no uncertain terms that if she didnt speak properly she wouldnt get anything... she was on her last chance and she did speak properly (but if she hadnt i would have actually got me and her mum a snack and not got her anything)
IMO manners are important and if you are going to be rude to me you will NOT get anything

Original poster
AcornOnmyfoot · 18/06/2009 21:28

Quite a relief to see majority opinions support me. Sorry if I came across as a bit holier than thou, didn't mean that but I do have guests around for tea at least 3 times a week on school days, most of them repeat visitors.

I suppose if I didn't know the parent and child well it would be rude of me, but it is actually a close friend and her ds was with his dad at the time and did not mind me saying it as he was enjoying a glass of Pimms at the time!

To be honest, if dc don't want to be polite then then they won't be invited back to mine. I have a 3 yo who's learning from example and it's simply easier if they all say thanks.

Agree totally about tone of voice, barking at them etc. Mine also collect their things and put them in the dishwasher, we don't expect that of guests and my dc will do their guests' for them but again, dc who come here regularly like to collect their stuff up too.

It's nice to know that when my dc go to other people's houses they do remember to say p&t
and I've also taught them to say 'thank you that was delicious' and 'can I help you tidy up?' because I often get very happy mums reporting back to me the next day!

As I see it, it costs nothing to be polite and the dc enjoy the praise (and so do I!)

OP posts:
katiestar · 18/06/2009 21:30

'Good manners' is making guests feel at home

Original poster
AcornOnmyfoot · 18/06/2009 21:36

Yes I agree with that Katie, and making them feel at home in my home means expecting them to say p& t.

OP posts:
katiestar · 18/06/2009 22:14

Does that put their parents at ease ?

Original poster
AcornOnmyfoot · 18/06/2009 22:49

I think they're very at ease or they wouldn't be around mine so often!

Seriously though, there's a lot of laughter and fun in my house and not a lot of formality (a part from that I suppose)

My own parents had a 'show home' type of home where if you spilled something there was hell to pay, they never entertained, only polite chat and pleasantries if people called etc

My own homelife is a reaction to that I suppose, but they instilled good manners in me and I suppose that is something I have a bit of a bug bear about.

OP posts:
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