To leave my £80 of shopping for the checkout assistant to put away

[mummytopebs]

Was in supermarket doing my shopping got to the till, had £80 worth of shopping in this was 4 cans of john smiths for dh. The drink was at the end of the shopping so everything had gone through, the checkout lady asked for id (I am 29 but do look young but not that young and god its 4 cans of beer with a full shop not some chavvy drink) I said i did not have any on me but i used to work in the said supermarket so said can you call my old manager who will verify my age. She tutted at me and called the line manager who i used to work for, she said yes she is definitly over age it was 6 years when i worked there and i was definitly over 18 then. The jobsworth sorry checkout lady still looked at me distastefully and the manager said it is up to the checkout lady though cos she originally akked for the id. I said can i have it then and she looked at me and went nah !!!!!!!! I said are you joking and hse said no i dont think you are over age!!!!!! So i said well i'll leave it then and she said ok and put the beer down and said thats £80.71p and i said no i will leave the lot - grabbed my dd and flounced out of the shop with an air of triumph.

I dont care if i had been shopping for an hour, i used to work in that supermarket and know she will have to put it all away ha ha ha

But where is the law that says we must carry ID? As I said earlier and I think Riven said the same about her DH/DP, I don't have a driving licence or a passport. Why should anyone in this country who doesn't ahve one have to pay to get one just to prove who they are?

Especially now a driving licence is about £50 and a passport pushing £80 plus a fiver for the photos.

We are doing a lot of expensive proving of innocence these days, aren't we?

Also what would happen if someone who was 36 and was refused alcohol because they didn't have a passport with them then took the retailer to court? because as the law stands it is against the law to serve alcohol to under 18s, it is not against the law to not carry ID

scary- presumably you have a passport?

saltire- there are lots of cards available under the pass accredited scheme, starting around £10. they have a website. you don't HAVE to get one, but if you look under 25, it would be worth while rather than wasting an hour shopping and missing out on your 4 cans of shite beer.

there is no law saying you have to carry id.

but shops are well within their rights not to sell you age restricted items without id.

in fact, shops are within their rights to not sell you anything they choose.

eugh this thread is boring now.

you don't Saltire - but you maybe can't get served then

I think YABU but I'd like something clarifying.

Imagine undercover police person is watching this:

Someone is asked for ID
But can't provide it
Gets served anyway
Police person intervenes, finds out they are over 18. Can the seller still be prosecuted?

Agree also with whoever said the checkout staff may have thought she was being tested by her manager - I wouldn't envy her having to make that decision but sometimes you have to do what you know is correct, not what someone in authority is telling you to do.

SO really its ID cards by stealth isn't it?

I thought I had been ID-d for the stupidest thing once in Homebase - basically a box you use to hold your saw straight while you cut wood (I think!) - just a plastic box with holes in it, no blades at all.
But after the top and the ginger beer incident I think maybe not!

not if you don't want to be served alcohol
maybe I should create my own range "ID cards by Stealth"

stealthpolar - exactly - would they take the retailer to court for serving someone who was over 18 but didn't have ID?

that's what i need to know
also i suppose whether staff are aware. if they know that wouldn't happen then i think i personally would take the risk, on the say so of my manager who i presumably trusted. if she could have been prosecuted anyway then i wouldn't have done

they would be prosecuted for selling to an under 18. so not necessarily for not applying challenge 25 fully.

HOWEVER, some premises have licences which have conditions. this may mean losing their licence if they do not ask every customer for id. or it may be that they have to have every alcohol purchase second checked by a personal licence holder. as part of every premises licence the premises has to show due diligence in upholding the law. this is done in most places by following challenge 25. if they are seen to be loosely following this, or letting people go by on the say so of others rather than by asking for id, then they may in breach of their licence, so would have to stop selling alcohol, may be fined, may be closed down.

What a preposterous thread.

It's a ludicrous situation where a 29 year old can have her age vouched for by a manager and still be refused a sale. The law in this country says you can buy and drink alcohol at 18. At 29 I imagine you rarely get asked for ID so have long since stopped carrying it. And why the hell should you have to when you are not doing anything wrong?

If shops cannot get their checkout staff to use common sense they deserve to lose custom.

I fully understand what is being said about challenge 25 but that doesn't make it right. It's far better to rely on people's judgement than add rule after rule.

I've been asked ID since I had my children (I was 36 when I had my first) and although I showed it I did laugh at the person asking me. I'll admit I looked young for my age but under 25? Not in a million years.

Just googled Think 25 and came up with a rather interesting thread from The Student Room forum. To quote someone on there:

Originally Posted by RightSaidJames
Hmm... I was doing last minute Christmas shopping today in Sainsburys, and at the counter the cashier asked if I was alone. Not thinking, I replied "no, I've got someone to help me with the packing" (my 16 year old sister was having a drink in the café, and I meant taking things to the car rather than packing). She said that "it's not the packing I was on about, it's the alcohol". Then she took my ID off me, wrote down my name and address on a sheet, and carried on as normal. Does anyone know why my details were taken?

REPLY: It's company policy in Sainsburies to take the details of all ID's checked. I think it's because they can then trace who checked whose ID and track people if trading standards come back at them.

The above is simply a rough guess as to why, but it seems logical. It's like my local takes ID from the students and shows it to the security camera as proof they have taken it and acknowledged it as proving above age limit.

YANBU and neither is the checkout operator.I would not want to be stuck with a large fine !!If the manager was vouching for your age HE should have been the one putting through the transaction.

ruddy

If a place had conditions of applying challenge 25 to their license could they lose it for selling alcohol to somebody who had been asked for id and couldn't provide any, but that person was actually over 25?

and more importantly could the individual member of staff be prosecuted and fined (as the 'store' i.e. manager) were obviously prepared to serve her?
But that to me is the most important issue

I should have thought that any doubts about age could be dispelled by paying with a credit card- afaik these are only available to the over-18s, thereby quelling any doubts at one go.

That is of course assuming the retailer trusts that the card belongs to the person concerned (and if they have any doubts about the authenticity of the card, surely they would decline the use of the card, not just take the money and run ) and also assumes that the real reason for Think 25 is not ID card by stealth.

YABU!

This happened to me last week, I am 22 and could not get sold cigarettes or alcohol last week because I forgot my ID. The lady who was serving me has sold me atleast 5 times with my ID but she had to refuse and I would've done the same thing if I were her it's not worth the fine or the hassle if she were to get caught.

It is'nt the checkout operators who ahve to put back your bloody shopping it's one of the 'helpers' who deal with spills and stocking and I think they have far better things to do than run around after childish morons throwing temper tantrums.

Well I think checkout woman was just being a cow.

And having been mugged twice I have to say there is no way in the world I am swanning around the place with passports driving licences etc in my bag.

I think the flounce was excellent. OP used to work there, manager knows her and her age, checkout woman was just being difficult.

So ner.

I thought under18s could have credit cards linked to their parents card? I never had one but I'm sure someone I know did.
LTOS - do you not agree that if the law works like I think it might then she would have been putting her job on the line and facing prosecution?

but I agree about having to carry round ID - I never carry my drivers licence or passport and on the odd occasion I get ID-d it's a pain. Although they have in the past accepted a student card with my photo and name, coupled with an NHS card with my name and DOB on it - not sure if they should have done!

At last a reason to be pleased about being over the hill - no-one could mistake me for being underage

Yes I have a passport, but I don't make a habit of taking it to places with me unless I happen to be travelling. I certainly do not routinely take it out with me in Belgium or when I am in the UK. Why should I?

I think the point being made is that whilst selling alcohol to U18s is illegal - no-one on here who is defending the policy of having to show ID has actually given us the factual legal position for the stores. If Tesco asked me for ID and I couldn't provide it, but still sold me alcohol, why would they be prosecuted? I am very evidently well over 18 and 25 as well. If that is manifestly the case (as it is when they refuse to serve pensioners who don't have ID), then they don't need to see ID and are misapplying their 'retail initiative', which does not as far as I can see have the force of law.

If retailers are going to insist on ID, then they have to make it plain that :
a) everyone has to prove they are 18+ if buying alcohol (even pensioners)
b) that they will not let an adult buy alcohol if they are accompanied by their u18 child

The rules have to be consistent and not down to the whim of the checkout operator. That way, everyone will know where they stand. Misapplication of the rules of the store, and non-transparency of these rules for the public result in pissed off consumers and less sales.

I would also make the point that both passports and driving licences can be forged; and the details on a driving licence may be inaccurate. Mine still has my UK address on, where I have not lived for 3 years, as the DVLA were not interested in changing my address as I am abroad.

Yes RuddyNorah, stores have the right not to sell anything to a consumer if they so choose, but if they try that once too often, they won't have consumers to sell to, thus putting staff out of jobs. Consumers have the 'right' to boycott shops and broadcast far and wide on the internet and in the press why they are doing so.

I do not for a second think that the checkout woman guneuinely believed that the OP was under 18. Different if she did.

The law works that you cannot sell alcohol to under 18s. How you check that, what procedures are used is up to the shop. Manager knowing woman who used to work there and knowing her age really should be good enough. People suggesting manager would lie are barking - is good job why jeopardise it.

Cashier was on power trip.

I agree with Spam. Particularly given how the refusal was delivered. She was just trying to piss off the OP imo.