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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

778 replies

christmasmum · 06/06/2009 13:20

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

OP posts:
LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 15:57

maggie

I was thinking more of congenital abnormalities and the results of the ageing process, both of which are natural phenomena, but we don't deny pain relief where needed in those instances.

Unicornvomit · 06/06/2009 15:57

epidurals are already restricted to a certain extent, due to the fact there might only be one or two aneasthatists on site at any one time. and you might arrive too far advanced in labour to get one

there are other methods of pain relief between nothing and epidural that can be really helpful

there are pros and cons to epidural and they are not part of normal birth , in as much as a midwife cannot give them, and then further monitoring , drips etc is required adn your mobility is restricted., BUT if a woman makes an informed choice, she should, in theory be able to have one on demand, but the NHS has finite resources.. but they certainly do take your birth down a more medicalised route

i have had one birth with an epi and one without and would not choose to have one ever again, but that is my personal view

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:00

LovelyTin, even in cave man days, there is evidence that the women chewed on tree bark in the days leading up to birth to lessen the pain! My mw told me that. The notion of a birth without pain relief is a new one.

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:00

I've had heart surgery where the anesthetic didn't work hun so fillings I doubt would be an issue at all.
I can tell you when the knife goes into your chest to open you up you feel pressure not pain.

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:01

oh put you up on the cross

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:01

Was the heart surgery to remove your heart??

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:02

Obviously they realised I should say the whole op wasn't done with GA that would be impressive. Never seen nurses move so fast in your life though.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 16:02

If you felt pressure not pain when someone cut your chest open, I can assure you that something was working!

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:03

If you can open your eyes I can assure you it's not.

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:04

I don't need my eyes opened. I've experienced agony thanks. What I haven't experienced is an epidural.

laweaselmys · 06/06/2009 16:04

I can assure that in that case the aesthetic was working - you may have been aware, but that is not the same.

laweaselmys · 06/06/2009 16:06

I have had the anesthetic not work effectively (it was partially working but not covering the whole area) in surgery it was feckin' painful and I would never set foot in that hospital again.

ABetaDad · 06/06/2009 16:06

christmasmum - not having a go at you at all and I agree with every word you say except this bit. I can see why you think this but I disagree.

"And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??"

No absolutley not. In my view every woman who wants pain relief has an absolute right to have it. I can tell you now this policy, if it is a policy, is not the decision or invention of a man. I have never met a male Consultant or Anaesthetist or a Dad who thinks or wants women to go through child birth in pain - quite the opposite. They generally want every intervention possible for the woman.

"What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'."

This policy has I have no doubt been supported or proposed by supposed natural childbirth experts who are women who believe that child birth should be 'natural'. I am sorry to say I see plenty of it on MN. Natural childbirth is fine for some and not for others.

Some midwife or some untrained childbirth expert deciding a priori that a woman should give birth without pain relief even when she wants it and asks for it is totally and absolutley, incredibly, utterly and completely out of order.

I do think this policy of 'no epidural' has been informally in place for some time in some hospitals and pushed by midwives. It now appears to be being formalised. I have good reason to believe this. The midwife tried it on with DW at the birth of DS2.

DW clearly and plainly asked for epidural. The midwife immediately said "oh the Anaesthetists are a bit busy now". She had no idea whether they were busy or not, she said it 10 seconds after DW asked and did not consult anyone to see if they were busy or not. I am afraid I saw red - she was being a bossy officious, obnoxiuos, bully and I knew she was deliberately trying to push DW past the stage at which she could safely have an epidural.

Obviously DW was in no position to argue -but I WAS. I got up out of my chair in the corner where the midwife had put me as far away from DW as possible and walked over to her. I said in a strong clear voice. "My wife is a bit busy too. Now unless there is a major pile up on the motorway I would like you to phone for the Anaesthetists and find out when they can get here".

The midwife flipped open DW's file without looking at me and noticed that she was being supervised by the senior Consultant and after that - well the midwife could not do enough. Phone calls made, Anaesthetists were there in minutes, totally different tone of voice, stopped calling me 'Dad' in that patronising way, I even got a cup of tea. Job done, DW could still push and everything was fine.

christmasmum - I think you took totally the right decison for your birth and support you and others in that every centimetre of the way. Whatever you decide you want, pain relief or not. How dare anyone tell a woman she cannot have an epidural before she has even started labour?

Fine if a woman wants a natural childbirth without pain relief and fine if she does not and fine if she wants to change her mind half way through as you did. Its the woman's choice.

By the way I don't give a toss if anyone wants to flame me. I will not see women in pain because some arrogant idiot somewhere wants to save a bit of cash or impose 'natural childbirth' on women who do not want it.

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:09

good for you abetadad, wish I'd had an abetadad to fight my corner.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 16:09

ROFL maggie @ remove heart

kathy now you appear to be bragging about your amazingly low pain threshold.

Tell me what is your view of live organ transplant? Although agree the bloke does make a terrible fuss when they take his liver out. How feeble, it's just a bit of pressure after all...

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:10

Why were you in a chair away from your wife, should you not have been supporting her, helping her to find a good position, rubbing her back whatever so she didn't need an epidural, again another shite policy of hospitals but people don't have to go along with them.

laweaselmys · 06/06/2009 16:11

Doesn't the shock sometimes kill people when they do surgery without aesthetic?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 16:11

abetadad it is all your fault. kathy says so.

laweaselmys · 06/06/2009 16:12

argh, anesthetic silly spell check.

at rubbing back. Yes. That would have eliviated the pain of childbirth so much.

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:13

I don't think I do have a low pain threshold, I'm not trying to claim childbirth was a bit uncomfortable. But what I am saying to those who've missed out of the fun of epidurals is that they are not the easy option and there are alternatives to absolute agony and it doesn't have to be a major, major intervention like an epidural in normal, straight forward births and the hopsitals are right to limit them.

Thunderduck · 06/06/2009 16:15

Kathy get off that bloody high horse of yours please.

I think pain relief is an excellent use of NHS resources. No one should have to suffer in pain when there are such options available.

Should we also remove pain relief from terminal cancer patients because they don't really need it?

Should we carry out amputations as they used to, without anaesthesia?

I was in blinding pain the other day with cramps, and that was just the cramps, I didn't have to put up with dilation or the pressure of a baby against your back. And even though it wasn't quite as bad as labour all I could think was that dp would be home soon and I could ask him to put me out of my misery somehow. I cannot imagine having a natural birth.

Fine you did it with without an epidural, that's fine, it's your choice, but every birth and every woman is different, and to say if I can do it so can you is nonsense. Even if they physically can,why should they if pain relief is available and that's what they desire?

We are not living in a developing country so comparisons with there are irrelevant. There are many things we have here that they lack, should we also go without those just because we can?

Thunderduck · 06/06/2009 16:17

Well said Abetadad.

MaggieBee · 06/06/2009 16:18

I think he should have just soldiered on bravely with the old liver. Giving him a new liver was unneccessary intervention. Maybe the money could be better spent counselling him to accept it and not to be afraid.

TheCrackFox · 06/06/2009 16:21

Any type of pain relief will cost money. If you have G&A or pethadine then, sorry, it wasn't a completely natural birth. Perhaps we should all bring some rope to bite on when giving birth, it won't cost the NHS a penny.

KathyBrown · 06/06/2009 16:23

should we also go without those just because we can?

At least educate people to the risks they run and give them the opportunity to choose rather than make life easier for the NHS managers, who want to cut back on the people that actually do make a difference to birth outcomes to the mothers, the midwives.
It's not the £500 actual drug they want to cut back on it's the surgery and foreceps and complications that often go hand in hand that costs the money.
In theory they have the right idea but the one to one care should be available anyway.