AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

Well, generally I'm in favour of the less ignorant person taking the decision.

hey, if you're cool with always handing over decisions about what you do with your body to medical professionals, great.

That is exactly what you do the minute you paralyze yourself from the waist down.
You are now continuously monitored, drowsy from the morphine and in no fit state to consider anything at all.
I had my eyes rolling in the back of my head when they made Dh sign consent to a caesarian with my first even though it was purely a reaction to the epidural, like he'd have said no.

'Well, generally I'm in favour of the less ignorant person taking the decision.'

So women who request epidurals are all ignorant and unaware of the risks.

Habbibu -- great point! I asked the anaesthetist whether it was true that medical professionals have more pain relief/c-sections than normal, and she said that they all have a distorted view of labor and don't see the easy ones

right kathybrown, so you had a cs and an epidural yourself?!!! I can't believe it! You unzipped your baby with pain relief thanks very much, but the other ignorant peasants can endure the pain

They are more ignorant than the person who has spent years in medical school and in professional practice - of course they are. Some individual patients might have gone out of their way to read up on the procedure, but they are going to be in a minority. Most women will have a few imperfectly-remembered pieces of information gleaned from antenatal classes and pregnancy books.

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating. I can't help thinking that half the problem with epidurals is that it depends on the dexterity of the anaesthetist administering them. I had epidurals with both my births (in Paris where it was that or nothing). It took the pain out of the contractions but I could still feel them. I totally identify with christmasmum's comment "I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process". I had two fairly quick (7-and-a-half and 5-and-a-half hour) labours with no complications. Discussed this with midwife afterwards (having also read all NCT scare stories pereviously!) who said a lot of it is down to luck - your physionomy and the position of the baby - and that epidurals per se don't slow down labour some women just take longer than others.

kathybrown, my gran was so traumatised by her birth that could never bring herself to go through another pregnancy

so what's so great about that then?

I was lucky in not needing much pain relief, but that was because I had a relatively quick birth, not because of anything amazingly clever that I did

I would have asked for an epidural long before I put myself into the situation of never being able to face another birth

therefore they should be forced to endure pain they may find psychologically damaging. i know a good many physicians who've had epidurals themselves. maybe they're the only ones who should be allowed to have them.

i am surely glad the anaesthetists who gave me my epidurals didn't take the view that i didn't deserve that level of pain relief due to being an ignoramus.

You see I just don't recognise Kathybrown's description of being paralysed from the waist down and drowsy with morphine - I certainly didn't have any morphine and I was in the shower a couple of hours later feeling fit as a flea. You obviously had a very bad experience and I have nothing but sympathy, but who is to say you wouldn't have needed a caesarian anyway? You often hear the anti-epidural brigade say "Ooh I had an epidural with the first and it was terrible it was much easier the second time", but subsequent births are often easier anyway.

OP, back to your original post: 'And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them?'
Are they not allowed to be proud of them? And who exactly is saying that only women who suffer in childbirth are real women?
As far as I can tell, there must be researched significant downsides to having epidurals if any health organisation is thinking that they should be unrestricted in only some cases. I don't think it's about making women suffer - I think it's about trying to address the growing rate of caesarean birth in America and parts of Europe (I think heading towards half of all births in US!), where the WHO suggests the natural rate of births requiring CS is around 6% IIRC - please correct me if that figure is wrong.
I am not a natural birth guru, and if another woman wants to have an epidural I really don't feel affected by that - why should I? But I do understand why health-policy makers need to look at the bigger picture of general and long-term health, and that is what my post is based on.

No Maggie I didn't as I said earlier, I have had 3 children, the first was an induction with an epidural, it was hell on earth I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy which is why I think it's important that people realise it is far from the cop out or easy option. The reaction I had nearly led to a caesarian, luckily I stabilised whilst they got me ready for theatre and I was allowed to deliver a half dead baby. All was well until the epidural went in although of course being an induction we'll never know how that would have panned out naturally. She was born not breathing and we nearly lost her nobody mentioned that was an side effect of morphine at the time.
The next two I had with nothing at all, no gas and air, no pethedine just pure adrenaline including a back to back 12 hour which they wanted to do a csection for too.

Is it possible that kathy had a spinal block rather than an epidural....
I certainly was given a spinal block when having my Emergency C-section....
with a spinal block you are completely paralyzed from the waist down, and it is unpleasant...it made me feel more vulnurable than I already felt...
although, I didn't really feel drowsy...but I did have a dose of morphine, apparently...because when the spinal block wore off I had a horrible "ants crawling under skin" sensation, which is meant to be from morphine...I was just knackered from having laboured all night....

What are the real facts about the rise in caesarian births - I thought it was more about doctors not wanting to take any chances because of the risk of being sued (especially in the US) not because more women were having epidurals?

Well, that was your experience. The reaction I had to having no epidural for my dc1 was a four year age gap.

I'm not trying to 'cop out' or 'cheat' nature. I just don't want society to move in the direction where women have no option but to endure the pain.

I don't think it makes sense to talk about people being more ignorant than a medical professional in the context of pain, tbh. Assessment of medical danger/possible interventions/likely prognosis, yes, certainly I'd be hanging on the words of medical professionals but pain is a slightly different thing, I think. Pain doesn't exist outwith the subjective experience of the person feeling it and it is both a sensation and an emotion. You can't spot pain on an x-ray or scanner or by the laying on of hands, can you? It isn't possible for someone else to objectively assess your emotions and sensations. They have to guess/assess from your behaviour and communication. That's why good medical professionals listen with great care and sensitivity to find out how people are experiencing pain and help them to cope. In childbirth as in anything else this will vary hugely from woman to woman.

Yes it was my experience and it is no less valid than yours.
I do not ant women to be forced to suffer I want coping methods taught so that epidurals become used only in exceptional circumstances and the same for induction. Then we can do away with them because I promise you women's bodies are bloody amazing and we do not need our births medicalised thank you very much.

"we do not need our births medicalised thank you very much. "

But what if we want them medicalised?

tbh I think you have issues from your first labour clouding your judgement.

Maybe I do.
If you want them medicalised then you live with the potential consequences I guess and don't expect the NHS to put right all the potential issues that can go wrong or claim disability benefit, I assume you won't sue if paralyzed either ?

BUT KATHY, I'm not seeking to disuade people out of having an epidural or persuade them to have one. I think that the choice should be there for them, so actually, my opinion is more valid

I favour an environment where a woman can choose.

Kathy you seek to 'educate' other people about risks and what their pain threshholds should be able to take.

As for the risks of paralysis, they are tiny. You're bound to try and exaggerate them. I have never even HEARD of a woman being paralysed by an epidural. Never even actually read about it in a low brow trashy magazine either.

Hi LillianGish,
I'm sorry I can't do the research tonight. I will try to tomorrow! (Feel like errant schoolchild with late homework!!) I just didn't want to ignore you. I'm pretty darned sure there is a link backed up with research, otherwise I'd have been loath to post about it - but you are quite right to ask for the details.
FWIW I don't think it's feasible to just blithely restrict epidurals now, not after this many women have used them. I do think that huge efforts need to be made in supporting women with other forms of pain relief that have less of an impact on the physiology of labour - and I think one-to-one midwife care has got to be a goal with respect to this.
I think Crosseyed has got it right - it's about reducing demand, not restricting supply. Then no-one's freedom of choice is denied, but other methods of pain relief are given the best chance of being used to the woman's satisfaction.

The fact is that for some women a medicalised birth is better than a dead baby (actually I think we'd probably all agree on that!) You say your baby was born "half-dead" what if it had been dead - would you have wished they'd done a caesarian and wondered if it would have had a better chance? My friend's very late baby was born dead and she wonders to this day if she'd been induced the day before whether the baby would have lived. You think intervention gave you a bad experience she wonders if intervention would have given her a better outcome.

"I promise you women's bodies are bloody amazing and we do not need our births medicalised"

Is that why so many women died in childbirth until recently in human history?

LilianGish, that's the kind of thing that upsets me. Why are people so anti induction. It's not done for fun! It's done for a reason. Your poor friend. What a lot of "what if" to carry.