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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to dread a Conservative govenment?

292 replies

tryingtobemarypoppins · 05/06/2009 20:10

As a teacher and mother I feel I should dread Conservatives getting in.....

OP posts:
Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:10

Labour have increased public spending - has this actually increased the services you get?

Throwing money at police, schools, NHS doesn't always make sense. How a business is organised has more to do with whether it is a good or badly run business. Take Indian train services - that change was probably one of the best change arounds in the last 20 years - money had nothing at all to do with the better service and trains running effeciently.

Until a party gets in that actually cares long term rather than short ego boosting back - then we will have a party that will make a difference to peoples lives. Neither of the three larger parties will ever do that though as long term isn't what they are about.

francagoestohollywood · 06/06/2009 13:10

I don't think you are being unreasonable.
I dread conservative governments, in general.

And btw scaryteacher, I moved to exeter in devon in 1999, so only 1 yr and a half after Blair got elected. Gosh it was gloomy. It got better with the years.

howtotellmum · 06/06/2009 13:12

spokette- it wasn't tax payers money that was given to the banks for bonuses etc- it was bank's money!

You made the point about Tory men's mistresses and babies- I asked you to name them- you can't.

Are you brainwashed or do you have facts?

Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:15

cancer and the goverment - most of the money comes from the public

lalalonglegs · 06/06/2009 13:16

I feel utterly wretched at the thought of a Tory government and one headed by David Cameron in particular. Best scenario is that it gives Labour four years to regroup and sort themselves out (maybe find some ideals again). I can't imagine that whoever inherits the current economy and debt will be able to make themselves very popular so hopefully it's just four years of preening "Just Call Me Dave". It's a grim prospect though.

sceptic · 06/06/2009 13:23

The benefits system is a mess and crippling the economy. It is just not right that hard working people should be paying for able bodied people to stay at home and take, take, take.

The lack of morality in this country is quite sickening.

Take this scenario - young woman shags and gets pregnant 'by accident' (no, you shagged). She can't afford to support her child, so goes on benefits (so far, not too much of a problem because she didn't mean it and it's not exactly the kid's fault). She gets bored by not having much to do apart from making up bottles for her child - so she shags again and again while taking her 'career' break. More kids to be looked after by the state.

Why can't people make sure they can afford to bring up their children before having them? For us, it was something we clearly thought about before getting pregnant. Yes, we had to make some sacrifices, but the basic numbers did add up. Because our budgets were tight, we had a few hiccups along the way - but we managed without asking for hand-outs.

There are many, many deserving people who rely on benefits (particularly disabled people and their carers, and widows), but the freeloaders really drags the whole system down. The system has to err on the side of giving too much so that those who really need and deserve it don't lose out, but it is getting to be a joke now.

As for CTC and EMA - scrap them both. The administration costs are beyond belief. Let everyone have a claim, without arbitrary cut offs and adjust tax allowances and rates accordingly.

The taxation system is obviously used to raise public funds, but it is also there to influence behaviour. The last thing any decent government should do is endorse an 'anything goes' lifestyle. All that has led to is feral children and more.

scaryteacher · 06/06/2009 13:23

I moved to Devon in 1986 Franca when I got married and have lived there and Cornwall until 2006 when we moved abroad for an Armed Forces posting. I love it and it was great from 1986 onwards, but the investment there from the UK government plummeted under Labour, and the recent decision to move everything from Devonport to Portsmouth will take a massive chunk out of the economy in Plymouth and the surrounding areas.

Cornwall qualified for Objective One funding which is from The European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) - aimed at reducing regional imbalances and assisting disadvantaged regions, particularly, run-down areas facing restructuring problems and industrial decline and rural areas.

If Labour had been serious about the West Country they would have improved the transport infrastructure, including getting a motorway past Exeter.

They would also have been a bit fairer with the SSAs for LAs, which they restricted, especially in Cornwall, as it was Lib Dem.

spokette · 06/06/2009 13:24

howtotellmum

The politics of envy? There is nothing envious about me love. I just believe in social justice and equality. The fact that you have to trot out that tired old line says more about you than me.

I am not brainwashed and I do have facts because I can read, deduce and make up my own mind because I went to school and learnt something.

As for Tory MPs and babies, the two you mention are the ones I remember but there were plenty of them in the Thatcher and Major government with mistresses. John Major spouting his "Back to basics" when he knew he was an adulterer sums them up at that time.

David MacClean tried to stop the publication of MP expenses because he did not anyone to find out that the taxpayer was contributing to his lover's expenses.

sceptic · 06/06/2009 13:28

Equality?

How about people give 'equally' as well as receive (I'm loathe to say equally because an awful lot of people are on the take).

In this country, everyone has an almost equal access to education and healthcare. Why can't they pay their fair share into the coffers?

It's funny how equality goes one way.

spokette · 06/06/2009 13:30

Would also like to point out Howtotellmum that the minute you start to get personal,you lose the argument.

If you cannot debate without resorting to personal invective, you should not bother.

Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:30

birth rate between 1994 - 2006 uk

Put the above into a google search

You will find that birth rates have fallen in cheshire and warwickshire - also in other counties. Any goverment party would have been able to decrease class sizes btween 1997 - 2009 without doing anything at all. If birth rates fall so will the numbers of children at school.

spokette · 06/06/2009 13:32

Yes Sceptic, I agree So in the same we go after benefit fraudsters, let's apply the same zeal to those who avoid paying taxes.

Janos · 06/06/2009 13:37

Some Tory Scandals:-

David Mellor and Antonia da Sancha

Alan Clark (he of diaries fame) - serial cheater!

Cecil Parkinson and Flora Keays

Heseltine and Westmoreland.

Stephen Milligan and his orange related accident.

Bill Cash and his lovely family.

John Major and Edwina Currie - what a lovely pair they made!

The delightful Dame Shirley Porter

Just off the top of my head.

Anyone who thinks the tories are gonna be the great saviours is wearing several pairs of rose tinted specs.

New Labour aren't really much better tbh.

dizietsma · 06/06/2009 13:37

YANBU OP. I like Charlie Brooker's article about this "You're a passenger in a car that someone else is driving, and your hands are tied, and up ahead is a container lorry full of hot liquid manure that you're definitely going to run into the back of, but your driver's deaf and blind and not slowing down, so there's nothing you can do except writhe in your seat and brace yourself for the impact."

Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:38

Avoiding paying tax is never seen in this country as something bad, rather the glee of not having to pay as much tax and having a "good" accountant that can fiddle deduct amounts and get it tax free.

Tesco is one of the worst offenders but there are plenty more. If they all paid the correct amount of tax - the country would be in a much better state.

barnsleybelle · 06/06/2009 13:39

I'm a political nerd to be honest... but i'm not sure how the following situation is right, so would love those of you will nouce to fill me in, so to speak.

A fellow school mum got made redundant 4 months ago. She worked full time in HR. I've no idea how much she earned, i really don't know her that well. She's a single mum of 2. One age 13 the other 7. Her ex h is long gone and she claims he gives her no money.
Anyway, since she was made redundant and is now claiming all the benefits she is entitled to she is surprised to learn she is actually £20 a week better off.

How is that right?

Janos · 06/06/2009 13:43

Oh, and who could forget Jeffrey Archer and his fragrant wife?

Or the not at all sleazy Neil and Christine Hamilton.

steviesgirl · 06/06/2009 13:43

You are entitled to how you feel so no - YANBU.

Personally, I can't wait long enough for them to get in. This government has been the worst for years and years.

Out if them has come the nanny state. Conservatives come back! All is forgiven.

flatcapandpearls · 06/06/2009 13:45

But in the long term she is probably not better off, she is not paying into a pension and not working her way towards a promotion or a better job.

Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:45

I sat between to men the other day - one his company went under

he now works 14 hours a week and his wife doesn't work, he is better off than when he ran his own company.

The other is unemployed but his wife works - here is the difference, due to her working and earning £90 per week they are worse off. First man said, get your wofe to stop working and you will get more money

The second man will not do this - but they will all suffer and could lose their house

Janos · 06/06/2009 13:45

Conservatives come back! All is forgiven.

No it isn't.

However, the Tories are going to get in, because this government is so awful and making a complete hash of things.

HeadFairy · 06/06/2009 13:48

yeah right, all is forgiven unless you were one of the millions chucked ruthlessly on to the scrap heap by the Tories, left to rot and create problems a generation later (generational under achievement, unemployment, ill health etc etc)

Personally we lost everything because of the Tories, if they come back in we're all going to hell in a hand cart. Of course there'll be this bounce and everyone will say how lovely Dave and Sam are. In about 8 years they'll have totally ballsed everything up, not spent anything on public services so they all collapse and the next governments have to spend years putting it all back together again.

sceptic · 06/06/2009 13:49

I don't think we can do much about benefit fraud - it will always be there and we can tighten the system as much as possible, but shouldn't if it means really needy people miss out (a lot of deserving benefits recipients have learning difficulties and it would be quite wrong for them to have to be super clever to claim).

The issue is that there are too many legal claimants because that is the way the government has made the system.

As for tax dodgers, it is your right to legally pay as few taxes as possible. If the government leaves loopholes, then people will legally exploit them. Keeping the tax system simple means you have fewer loopholes to exploit. This is different from being dishonest on your tax return, or by earning cash and not declaring it.

flatcapandpearls · 06/06/2009 13:50

It can't have been a very successful business if they are better off on benefits.

I can't imagine that many people are better off on benefits in the long term.

Ivykaty44 · 06/06/2009 13:50

Either way it will be bad Labour will continue to do a bad job and run the country dry and Conservatives will make hugh cuts.

The devil and the deep blue sea or a rock and a hard place