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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if you cannot afford free range chicken/turkey meat and eggs...

755 replies

LolaTheShowgirl · 27/05/2009 09:31

...then don't buy at all?

I mean the suffering these birds go through in cramped, dirty sheds is unbelievable. There is usually no natural light and the birds are usually ill before they're culled.

If you can stomach it, please look at these:
WARNING: NOT NICE PICTURES!
HERE

OP posts:
GossipMonger · 27/05/2009 15:24

It is nothing to do with being rich or poor.

If we cant afford it then we dont eat it. I really think the OP has had a rough time on here but it has made for a great thread!

Lucia39 · 27/05/2009 15:25

GetOrf - it may well be your choice but is it ethically sound to treat other sentient creatures in such an inhumane way when there are alternative sources of food available to us?

Lucia39 · 27/05/2009 15:32

FIO Prof. Peter Singer makes some interesting comments on meat eating and vegetarianism

spicemonster · 27/05/2009 15:32

Fish are living in the sea, not tiny cramped cages. I don't know whether anyone has said this before (can't be arsed to wade through 16 pages of this) but meat is much, much cheaper now than it has ever been before and people have fed their families very well without anywhere near as much meat in their diets. We don't need to eat as much meat as we do and it's a huge contributor to our high rates of heart disease and obesity in the West.

I can't think why you'd want to feed your family with water-filled sickly chicken. Yuck! I'd rather give my DS fruit shoots any day.

deadflesh · 27/05/2009 15:37

""... Should I just say, "Sorry kids, we're poor and can't afford the meat that I know we should eat and if you don't like the lentils then go hungry?"

Sometimes needs must however unhappy that makes us. "

Firstly: Why do you think that you SHOULD eat meat?

Secondly: There are many more cheap and delicious alternatives to meat than JUST lentils, eg a delicious vegan sausage casserole can be made very cheaply.

Thirdly: Your unhappiness at going without meat is piffle compared to the suffering and murder of the animals who give their lives for your palate.

FioFio · 27/05/2009 15:54

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helsbels4 · 27/05/2009 15:55

Firstly,I didn't mean we should eat meat full-stop. I meant that I know we should eat well-bred, organic meat. Think your purposely twisting my words there as it was quite clear what I was refering to at the time

Secondly,you might think that a vegan sausage casserole is delicious but I beg to differ with regards to my children. After all I know what they like and don't like and will or won't eat.

Thirdly, I didn't mean that I was unhappy about going without meat. I meant that to use cheaper meat doesn't fill me with joy but it's that or not very much else for my two fussy eaters. If you're going to pass comments on what I've said then at least get the context of what I am saying correct.

I'm sure this started as a debate regarding organic v non-organic but from the sound of your post, you are against eating meat and the murder of animals completely. I fully appreciate the comments from people expressing their views concerning the benefits of organic meat but I don't need you pushing your views down my throat thank-you very much

oopsagain · 27/05/2009 15:57

Sorry, cback from the shop.
And I haven't read the whole rest of the thread- stuck at page 12,
But to all of thoise talking about budgets... veggie is cheaper!!
Tin of chickpeas available in most corner shops, as are kidney beans.
and lentils usually.

Kidney beansa, lentils, skany going off courgette, onion, garlic, chilli powder, tin of tomatoes.
and some rice.
lovley filling chilli...

When we know a diet high in meat is associated with bowel cancer- when we know a diet high in meat is implicated in heart disease...
why go out of your way to defend buying the cheapes crappiest bits of chicken you can get?

It's a leap of faith but veggie really is cheaper and healthier.

I eat fish on occaision- but from sustainable and fresh caught sources. So obviously not that often, as I'm not made of money!

When dh nadn i first got toetehtger we were really stuck for money and ate a ton of jacket potatoes with daal.
We still do- it's fab

MrsMerryHenry · 27/05/2009 15:59

Right, if this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.

FioFio · 27/05/2009 16:02

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Trikken · 27/05/2009 16:03

Veggie may be cheaper and healthier but im not going to only eat veg. If I could aford to buy free range I would but I cant, so cheap chicken it will be.

Lucia39 · 27/05/2009 16:22

PinkTulips - interesting analogy re slavery and present day attitudes towards "choice" especially given that, at earlier periods in history, Africans were regarded as mere animals!

Indeed, wherein does lie the difference?

sarah293 · 27/05/2009 16:25

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Cosmosis · 27/05/2009 16:27

"i cannot afford free range stuff all the time, not gonna become vegetarian over it. "

sorry to pick on your post in particular Trikken but you have summed up one side of the argument that seems to be going on very nicely.

For some, they are willing to cut down on their meat intake to only eat fr / organic meat. Some aren't - it's as simple as that.

I'm in the are willing camp, we have cut down on the amount of meat we eat inorder to buy better meat - and not just that we don't eat it as often, but we eat less when we do - ie if I'm doing a curry, one breast between two is plenty. I don't have children yet so obviously my opinion isn't worth anything though

Morloth · 27/05/2009 16:34

The thing is, humans as a species are in my opinion quite selfish. I would say that 70% of the world's population couldn't give a flying fuck about animal welfare - they are interested in getting enough to eat in order to stay alive/keep their kids alive.

This isn't very nice and I am not saying that it is ethical but it is the way it is.

I think the best way to improve standards for animals (if you actually care that is and are not just looking for ways to feel superior) is to push the health benefits to humans. People who might not care about the life of a battery chicken will probably care about the effects eating it has on them.

No point trying to deal with the world in the way you want it to be, you have to deal with the way it IS.

I think I many be Mumsnet's residence cynic on human nature.

Nekabu · 27/05/2009 16:38

I won't eat battery chicken as I cannot condone the way they are kept; so eat the amount of chicken I can afford. Buying a whole chicken rather than just the breast is a lot more economical too.

bronze · 27/05/2009 16:39

Riven hear hear
and occasionally if there was something we really did loathe such as my brothers distaste of mushrooms then we either went without or we had to pick them out and leave them on the side of the plate ourselves.

bronze · 27/05/2009 16:41

Morloth someone said pretty much the same earlier so you're definitely not on your own with your views

Cosmosis · 27/05/2009 16:42

Lol same here riven. I was a terrible eater, horrific. I got my tea on the table and if I didn't eat it I didn't eat anything.

sarah293 · 27/05/2009 16:43

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MissSunny · 27/05/2009 16:46

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PinkTulips · 27/05/2009 16:48

morloth, i agree which is why i pointed out the tests HF-W did on the chicken meat.

the battery stuff really is utter shite, it's got next to no nutritional value... you'd hardly be any worse off eating cardbord to be perfectly honest... but of course proper scientific research into it won't be done any time soon as too many corporations stand to lose out

(another cynical POV here)

bronze · 27/05/2009 16:52

ugh

Lucia39 · 27/05/2009 17:17

Morloth Quote ["I would say that 70% of the world's population couldn't give a flying fuck about animal welfare - they are interested in getting enough to eat in order to stay alive/keep their kids alive"] End quote

That is probably very true for much of the world's population, given that so many are starving. However, the affluent West doesn't fit into that category. We have a plethora of foodstuffs from all over the world. We can eat what we want when we want. We no longer have to concern ourselves with "seasons" we can have strawberries in December and parsnips in July! Indeed, we have so much food that we actually throw vast amounts away every day.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 27/05/2009 17:43

"Why is everyone assuming that those who don't agree with the OP at feckless fuckwits who don't cook at all and buy unethically produced meat?"

I don't think that this is the case at all.

I think for the most part it's been quite a healthy debate with a few tempers and insults thrown in.

Everyone's got restrictions be it money, picky eaters, inability to or unwilling to cook.

But animal welfare is still something that should be discussed and not dismissed as something only "self righteous vegetarian twunts" care about (now there's an intelligent comment ). The quality of the meat and veg we eat has an impact on our physical health.

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