Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Or expecting the impossible from this Surestart Centre?

40 replies

totalmisfit · 15/05/2009 10:25

( sorry this is a long one)
Some of you might just about remember me posting about dd going missing from her nursery back in October. It was about the single worst day of my life: I arrived to collect her and found an irate lady in the doorway giving the staff an earful. Walked past about 3 members of staff and was pointed towards the wendy house where dd was sitting, soaking wet and bedraggled. Only when i asked for an explanation did the nursery manager explain that she must have escaped somehow, through the 'secure' door, out of another door, through the car park, out into the street and into the road where the lady in question, driving a 4x4 just managed to break in time and (thank you God) took her back to the nursery, where the staff hadnt even noticed she'd gone.

Cue me almost passing out,collapsing on dd in a heap, swearing i'd never let her back in the place and spending the next few weeks in utter shock while newspapers, ofsted inspectors, and all manner of educational types from the local authority began to swarm on the place.

About a month later, after the nursery staff and headteacher had grovelled and promised and sworn that measures would had been enforced that would prevent anything like that ever happening again, I had to face the fact that our deprived rural community has only one 'decent' nursery, (i.e this one), that we don't drive and getting her anywhere else would be nigh on impossible, and people kept saying 'well, after something like this, perhaps this would be the safest place for her to be; the staff will be so much more vigilant than they would have been had this never happened.' So, against my own better judgement, and with my heart in my mouth every single time, i let her go back. I stayed with her for the first few weeks and then gradually let go.

One of the key precautions taken was to install an inner gate which divides off the main room from the front door. The idea (i'm guessing) is that it works a bit like an airlock on a space shuttle, creating a space where the 'traffic' only flows one way and little people can't run out between people's legs whilst the adults are distracted (which is how they think she got out in the first place). I presumed that the staff would shut the gate behind them before opening the door to let parents and children in, then close the door before opening the gate. However, what happens more often than not is that the member of staff opens the gate, leaves it open, opens the door, lets us in, shuts the door and then closes the gate once we're all in the main room. (hope this makes sense). Now, is it me, or does this defeat the whole object of having the gate fitted in the first place?

I feel that dd's incident was evidence enough that staff vigilance alone isn't sufficient to stop escapees, and there's little point in having a gate if you're going to leave it open and tell the kids who are already behind it to 'stay there' while you open the door. So, I've had words with the nursery manager, and she promised me she would ensure the staff all used the gate as it was intended from now on. But the truth is they're still really inconsistant about it. So, i had words with the headteacher on Wednesday and he made the same promises. I turned up this morning to drop dd off and what did the nursery manager do? Yep, she left the frickin' gate open while she opened the door to let us in! Offs, i'm starting to feel she's deliberately trying to wind me up. I should have said something, I know i should but i was afraid it would come out as 'Close the fucking gate, it's not rocket science!' so i kept quiet.

I just don't know how many more times i can moan and complain and nag about this one. Perhaps the whole thing is completely unworkable. Perhaps there's just not enough hours in the day to mess about with the bloody gate....

I know they all think i'm a complete pita and i'm sick of saying the same things over and over and i'm starting to wonder if this is just my OCD showing through, or what.

OP posts:
RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

smallchange · 15/05/2009 10:36

Our nursery has a gate over the door of each of the rooms which is always closed (as far as I've observed) when someone comes out so the children can never get into the hall unaccompanied. No one seems to have a problem completing this simple task.

It's completely unreasonable that the nursery don't seemed to be bothered enough to observe their own rule - especially when you're around. Are they mad??

I'd have a meeting with the manager and say something along the lines of it must have been very stressful for her after the "incident" what with Ofsted etc and you find it very surprising that she's not doing everything she can to avoid something similar happening in future. And that you will raise your concerns with Ofsted if you don't see immediate improvement. I imagine they're being watched pretty closely at the moment (maybe I'm naive thinking this though).

dmo · 15/05/2009 10:38

phone the papers again

fryalot · 15/05/2009 10:40

I agree with shineon - they've had plenty of opportunity to sort it out in-house and the potential for a child disappearing is still there.

You are being a pita, but you have to be a pita for anyone to take notice of you.

Thank God there was no actual harm done when she wandered off the first time (I do remember being when you first posted about it) but to have had a child escape and not be too worried about making sure it doesn't happen again is absolutely disgraceful and something has to be done to ensure it isn't repeated.

Keep nagging, perhaps threaten to write the letters unless you can see that the changes they have made are actually being implemented. And if they're not, write the letters, keep nagging, tell the other parents, do whatever you have to do to make them SHUT THE BLOODY GATE! As you say, it's not rocket science is it!

I would be tempted to remove my child as well, tbh, but if you do, you are just passing the problem on to other parents who won't realise what the risk actually is. If you do take your dd out, please, please make as much noise about why as you possibly can so the other parents are aware of this happening to their child.

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Sunshinemummy · 15/05/2009 10:46

totalmisfit agree with others about making as much noise as possible. Our nursery has a gate on each room and it is always kept closed (has huge notices on it advising you to close it) so the children cannot get out. I would have epxected them to take this much more seriously given what happened with your daughter.

hobbgoblin · 15/05/2009 10:56

I totally and utterly agree and sympathise and worry for you and DD. However, reading this what strikes me is that you are battling human nature here.

In the same parents every day will leave their baby on a bed or changing table to 'just grab a nappy' or whatever because it is easier than the faffy precautionary route...in the same way we fling the tupperware in the cupboard knowing it is going to fall out on us when we open it, and so on...these staff are taking a little 'it won't hurt this once' risk every day. Even though they know from the dreadful occurrence with your DD that if Sod's Law governs one day it could be catastrophic.

But, what can you do? It is the job of staff to over protect, to be policy stringent and to not take such risks and many nurseries achieve this. However, there will always be that 'one time' and there will always be nurseries and individuals who take more risks.

All that publicity and complaint can do is raise awareness and I don't think it can change the mentality here, sadly.

totalmisfit · 15/05/2009 10:58

shineonecrazydiamond- it's over a year till she starts school. I agree, taking her out again is seriously on the cards though.

smallchange- yes they are being watched closely still. the head told me they have people from the local authority childrens services in every week. i know, the staff attitude is mind boggling, isn't it?

dmo - actually someone else (no idea who) phoned the papers the first time, but yep, i'm tempted to do it myself this time!

squonk - exactly, although obviously i have to put dd's safety first, i dont want to eff off and leave it to happen to another child either.

OP posts:
PinkTulips · 15/05/2009 11:00

i remember your posts the day she ran off.... my heart really went out to you having such an awful experiance.

well done for sending her back after that and giving it another chance.

but tbh, if it were my child i'd withdraw her, i'd write a letter to the manager explaining why i felt it necessary to withdraw her as they seem so completely incapable of following even the simplest safety procedures and i'd send copies of the letter to ofsted, the local authority and the local papers.

it's not a complicated task to ask them to close the gate and they are,it almost seems purposefully, refusing to so.

both playschools my dd has attended have been in very safe, quite low traffic locations yet both of them have been utterly rigid with regards to safety procedures.

the first had a buzzer and the front door was only answered by a member of stafff if all the classroom doors were securally fastened... the handles to all of them were adult height and there were panes of glass in the doors so if any ebterprising child attempted to reach the handles they could be clearly seen.

the one she's currently in is a community centre platschool, there is a front door, then a middle door into a little entrance hall, then a gate bolted shut from the outside (some of the kids can reach the bolt but we're about to fit a second one lower down). during in and out times one techer positions herself beside the gate as kids are brought in with the sole purpose of making sure none escape in the confusion, for the rest of the day that gate is bolted shut, the in between push doors are closed (and are too heavy for most of the kids to push) and the front doors are locked shut.

these aren't massively complicted tasks to achieve and could save a childs life

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

totalmisfit · 15/05/2009 11:01

sunshine mummy - it makes me even more cross to hear that in fact other nurseries can manage this, and that i'm not being that unrealistic. If yours can manage it, why not this one?

hobbgoblin - in my more pessimistic moments i can't help but agree, unfortunately. in that case, i suppose i have to take her out. oh bugger.

OP posts:
hobbgoblin · 15/05/2009 11:06

I'm sorry I didn't post a 'this is what I would do' response but I couldn't decide. I just read and thought how impossible it is really. They have the awareness, they have the procedures in place and the only thing stopping the children being safe is the mentality! If the incident the spurned the precautionary measures isn;t enough then what is?

Erm, start your own nursery?

What other childcare options are there where you are. Being rural makes thins very hard, I know, having had DC in Cumbria at that age.

TotalChaos · 15/05/2009 11:07

yanbu. they clearly just can't be arsed.

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 11:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

smallchange · 15/05/2009 11:19

I don't go with the human nature argument. There's lots of things we have to take care over in our paid work that we might skimp on at home.

This is about management not enforcing procedure. Staff need to be disciplined and then sacked if they can't follow this simple, simple rule.

The nursery needs to be closed down if it's not possible to recruit enough staff who can follow procedure.

Actually, I think it's probably the manager that needs to be disciplined and sacked. If they are the owner than obviously this would be problematic.

smallchange · 15/05/2009 11:22

e.g I need to log off my pc if I leave it unattended for any length of time due to data protection/confidentiality issues. Easy to think "Nah, I'll just pop out for a second."

If I was caught doing it once, maybe twice I'd be warned. If I kept doing it I'd be sacked.

How much more important is the safety of the children in their care?

racmac · 15/05/2009 11:22

Can you not get back in touch with Ofsted and tell them that its not being done properly - Im shocked that this happened - your poor dd and poor you it must have been so frightening

totalmisfit · 15/05/2009 11:23

right, i'm all geared up to go in fighting now. Better go and pick her up. I'll try and update later on this afternoon and let you know whether i had the guts to kick some arse.

thanks for all your comments, i feel much more determined to get this sorted now. one way or another.

OP posts:
Pizazz · 15/05/2009 11:23

what's a pita?

RumourOfAHurricane · 15/05/2009 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hobbgoblin · 15/05/2009 11:25

pain in the arse pizazz

hobbgoblin · 15/05/2009 11:26

Mind you I have noticed you are not as smiiiiley as me

BradfordMum · 15/05/2009 11:27

Ok rationally, what happened to your child could happen again. Either to another child or heaven forbid yours.

Could you live with yourself for not kicking up a stink when you knwe this was possible or may happen.

It's a no brainer to me.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 15/05/2009 11:34

Withdraw her, write a letter to them and to ofsted outlining your continued concerns, and emphasise that their continued lack of progress in ensuring your childs safety and the safety of the other children in the nursery is seriously going to impact on your child's access to education, as she is missing out on a legally entitled nursery place (which you pay for) due to their failure to provide a safe place for your child (which they are legally obliged to do).

If they cannot say for absolute certainty how your DD 'escaped' the first time, then they cannot presume a child will not 'escape' through an open gate when they are not looking. Next time, the 4x4 driver might not notice in time.

Sunshinemummy · 15/05/2009 11:38

Yes I don't understand why they can't stick to it either. It's not a difficult rule to follow and you really would have thought they'd have learnt the lesson from last time. IMO you need to keep speaking to the head and the nursery manager as a change in behaviours will only come from the top down.