Fuming

[lilacclaire]

I use another website forum regularly which is based in the US but used by people all around the world for help and advice on things that I am interested in that are not covered on this site.

One of the girls on their used the word spastic to describe herself at exercising (she is not disabled in anyway)

I posted that it was a very offensive term and basically got slated by the moderators for it, telling me to lighten up.

AIBU to stop using this site, I am so pissed off right now about their attitude to words that are potentially very offensive (I was very offended).

Its a U.S thing, when I was there last year all the parking bays were marked handicapped parking

My lecturer used this term on Monday. I was [shocked] I can't remember what he was going on about though. I find it offensive.

I find it very offensive.

Even if it is deemed to be 'acceptable' over in the U.S, should they not have still taken on board the fact that you were offended and responded more appropriately?

I am surprised that a US site told you to lighten up as it is often they that are overly precious about these sorts of issues.

Could it be though that the word spastic is used in a different context over there and maybe isn't deemed to be offensive? Just playing devils advocate!

I was aware that the word "handicapped" is used in the US (e.g. handicapped bathrooms, parking etc) as Kimi mentioned.

I hadn't heard of the word spastic being used and being ok. Perhaps an American mner could enlighten us further?

Do the moderators know you are in the UK lila? Would it be worth you sending a polite response back just pointing out that in the UK this word is not appropriate?

Am I missing something but dosen't the word simply mean 'characterized by spasms' (Girl referring to her movements). Is it really so shocking? Im sure she didnt mean anything offensive.

Hi, they know im UK, I did point out that it was VERY offensive, I would have thought they might have taken it on board as they have a lot of UK members.
Not only the moderators btw, other members as well.

Bonneville, its a very derogatory terms used to describe disabled people, I put it in the same category as the N word to describe coloured people.

In US and Canada - spaz and spazzy used very commonly (by Tiger Woods to describe his golf on a bad day). Not considered offensive at all.

Thanks for the input hellish.
I thought it was a universal derogatory term, I stand corrected.
Was a tad disappointed at the response from them though.

It may be widely used in other countries but it doesnt make it any less offensive does it? Like retarded and handicapped. Still offensive words whatever accent they are said in.
My family use the spaz word. They seem to think they are being flippantly cool (they use it to decribe their blue badges). I still think its inappropriate.

But I accept that we probably all use words that someone will find a bit off. I dont think a concern should be dismissed though.

this is like a red mist to me when i hear it being used

it is used so much in america noone sees it as offensive , and i have had the same reaction when i have piped up

i have then explained where the term comes from, which has made some people think, it's v frustrating

Just wondering if the website was Ravelry?
There was a topic on this the other day, it seems that for many Americans (others have the same view as brits but it seemed to be a geographical thing) it means something completely different to them (usually clumsy) and although outdated was considered ok to say.

If you are going to post on a mainly US site you need to accept that they may have different views on language.

For what it is worth I hate seeing that term used too.

It's just a different word over there, and has no offensive connotations at all I don't think. If I remember correctly, T Woods (and Americans in general) was quite surprised by all the hoo ha in the UK and had no idea why everyone was upset. Doesn't fanny mean bottom ie bit you sit on? Not rude either to them!

'it is used so much in america noone sees it as offensive , and i have had the same reaction when i have piped up'

FFS, please stop tarring us all with the same brush. I find the word offensive, and know lots of Americans who feel the same. You don't know everyone in America, and I'm nearly at the end of my tether with these blanket statements of 'everyone' and 'noone' in America does X.

FWIW, I've heard plenty of people over here use really offensive terms, including 'spastic' and 'window-licker'. I worked with adults and children with disabilities in the U.S. for six years, and yes, the 'correct' or PC terminology changes over time and differs from country to country. I worked with several adults with a medical diagnosis of 'spastic quadraplegia'. But calling yourself 'spastic' in terms of being uncoordinated at exercise isn't acceptable and is offensive, even in the U.S.

It's unfortunate the OP got slated for trying to point this out, and I don't think that was right, but neither do I think it indicates Americans on the whole are less sensitive to issues of disability.

I also hate it when people call something 'gay' or 'retarded' to indicate that they don't like it/think it's lame. Again, that is something that happens on both sides of the pond.

OP, if the moderators of the site are arseholes, then YANBU to stop using it.

maybe i should have said noone i have encountered finds it offensive

lilacclaire...are you aware that the term "Coloured" people is offensive and very out dated?
I think you are referring to black people.

"Coloured people" Where are you? The 1940's?

Actually in the usa, the term is african-american and not even black. And as whiteheart said, "colored" is considered offensive, as is the term "oriental" which is commonly used in the uk. As an american, I was not aware that anyone would consider the term spastic insulting until I lived in the uk. Conversely, I was also frequently surprised while living in the uk, at terms that educated british people used in everyday conversation like "gyp" to mean cheat and "jew" to mean cheap.

I am surprised at how unaware (and intolerant) so many mumsnetters seem to be of the cultural differences between the us and uk.

As an educated British person I have never heard anyone use the term "jew" to mean cheap. I have heard people infer that Jewish people are cheap (actually more often the cultural reference is to the Scottish from the English). Gyp on the other hand I have heard used in exactly the way you describe, although it has been in common use for several hundred years, and you will find in in dictionaries with the meaning to swindle or cheat. The derivation is probably indeed from Gypsy. It's more often used as slang for pain though, with no relation to Gypsies at all.

I told a kid off the other day for calling another kid a spaz (the other kid was being a bit of a pain - no physical issue at all) and they were very upset when I explained why it was an inappropriate term to use, and seemed to have no idea it could be wrong. We live in Canada.

I have seen it suggested that the reason for "spaz" being such a taboo word in the UK is related to Joey Deacon (who had cerebral palsy but was described as being Spastic) being on Blue Peter and kids in playgrounds picking it up as an insult (a terrible back fire as it was supposed to be an inspiring story). Apparently it is the second most taboo word for disability after retard.

In the States it has been used as a term to describe someone a bit nerdy and uncool, but there is obviously a clumsy link too, so it seems likely that if you did have CP you might get called a spaz, which then woudl have pejorative connotations.

I don't really understand the issue with Oriental. In the UK this is usually used to describe the art or history of the Far East. I've not heard it used to describe a person (there are other pejorative terms used for the Chinese and Japanese).

ffs, different cultures have different ideas of what is offensive. You cause major offense if you Blow your nose in public in Japan or eat with your left hand in the middle east or say Fanny loudly in Britain -- fine to do those things in other places, though.

You cannot be culturally sensitive to everybody everywhere at the same time, place & time are crucial.

ps: As a Amerian the British aversion to "handicapped" hugely confuses me. There was a whole MN thread about it ages ago. It has nothing to do with begging (cap in hand) horses are handicapped in races it means they have an extra burden to carry. Golfers are handicapped -- they have extra points added onto their score. I struggle to figure out what's wrong with the analogy to a person who finds it extra hard to do certain things.

But I have learnt, like blowing your nose in Japan in public, you just don't say it...

maybe because disabled people don't feel that they have an 'extra burden to carry' or that they find things 'extra difficult'.

I guess I have to get used to the fact that every time I try to disprove a stereotype, some other American will come along and prove it right again.

But it goes to what I said earlier, we are all different. Every single bloody day for the last 6.5 years I've had assumptions made about me because of my nationality, most of them completely wrong. It gets exhausting, but most of the time I don't bother arguing. I mean, I only lived there for 26 years, but what is that worth compared to the 'knowledge' some British people have of the U.S. from going to Disneyland and watching Friends repeats?

This time I felt differently, because it was something I felt particularly strongly about. 'Spastic' and 'spaz' ARE offensive terms to me and lots of Americans I know. Maybe it's because of my line of work, or because I lived in a really progressive area with a university that was well known for research into disabilities. I suppose that is not the 'typical' American experience.