to wonder if British people who go on holiday in the States deliberately seek out the stupidest...

[AtheneNoctua]

people they can find so they can come back and tell everyone how stupid all Americans are.

I think it was John Simpsons book about Iraq (correct me if I am wrong? ) where he talked about the warmth of Americans and that struck me as being so true and such a nice thing to write. Any American person I have met has came across as being very caring or nurturing.

I'm in love with the USA. It's my dream to live there - I think what people can't get their heads around is the scale of the place. If I lived in NYC, and I could get a flight to New Orleans why would I want/need to holiday in england?!

And I love american voices, I wish my DH was a yank!!

oh yes pramspotter, everyone who lives ona council estate in the county of yorkshire is thick

When I wentr to the US almost everyone thought I was Australian (I have a soft black country accent ) I don't know if this was a bad or a good thing

I do agree with your last post, Leonie.

I have a Chapter 7 bankrupcy and the nail in my coffin was when I was working temp (no insurance and couldn't afford to buy it, was living in a studio apartment and driving one of my boyfriend's cars) and was struck by a repeat drunk driver, who was in his friend's car. Of course, he had no insurance to do that.

He went to jail.

I went to bankrupcy court.

My mother whitters on about 'socialised medicine', but she has a) no experience of it b) lived the life of Riley and never had to worry about stuff like that.

It's a great place to live, if you're making a really good salary and love your job.

Having been working poor in both places, I can tell you which one I chose.

LeonieSoSleepy/expatinscotland - that is an aspect of the USA we forget. f people lose their job and get ill they have little or no healthcare.

The NHS is rubbish in so many ways and terribly wasteful but the US system is even worse. I hoped Obhama would immediately do something about it when he got in office given the number of people unemployed in the US - but I hold out no hope.

I'll take the American medical system over the NHS any day. It is far more reasonable priced than the private system in the UK. I'm okay with paying a moderate amount for treatment. But in the UK I can have crap care for "free" (although it isn't at all free if I check my pay stub), or I can have private care for huge fees.

In the US, I have to pay, but I can get reasonable care for a much more resonable price.

Why do you think the care in the UK is crap, Athene? I have had amazing health care on the NHS (and I am well acquainted with health care in several countries and can make informed comparisons).

I think the standard of the clinical care is about the same, but the resources in equipment in the US is amazing. My mom had a huge health scare recently and she had an MRI, CT scan the next day. That doesn't happen in the UK.

But the maternity care in the UK is stellar, and DS is a frequent flyer at Children's Hospital. My cousin a Paediatrician in the US and says that the care DS has been receiving would have been the same -- i.e. the tests, diagnosis etc.

The difference being that the state is paying for it rather than an insurance company. I would rather have a socialized system where the people running it are accountable than a profit making system.

I work as a nurse in the NHS. The care on the wards is horrific. The nurses are great but safe nurse patient ratios here are a joke...especially on medical wards where you get a higher concentration of elderly people.

Would rather be back in the USA and bankrupt.

"crap" on a global scale is probably a bit harsh. But, relative to the quality of care in the States, crap it is. I guess it is mostly down to waiting times, the system of "fob off" you have to fight to get to a doctor for minor medical problems (I do think the NHS is quite good in emergencies). It is all based on statistics of what is best for the nation rather than what is best for the individual patient. And lots of minor things are not covered at all - for example veruca removal. In the States you would get an anaesthetic and have the veruca laserd off. In the UK you fobbed off and told that even if they did burn it off they wouldn't give you any anaesthetic.

I do know of people who are really quite ill and get very good attention on the NHS. But, for people who have minor not life threatening illnesses they just get prioritised off to a waiting list.

The other problem I have with socialised medicine is that it doesn't encourage personal responsibilty.

yes, agree that the NHS is great in emergencies.

The nurse/patient ratio at Children's Hospital was often 3:1, the 10 days we were there. Not intensive care.

"But i dont think they'll let you die here in the UK because of what it costs the public - certainly i've never encountered that myself. "

Let's talk about the availability of cancer drugs and the fact that if you dare to go get them privately your NHS treatment for the cancer will cease.

That is no longer the case, though, Athene.

Cancer care here in France is much more ruthless than in the UK. People live longer in France after a diagnosis of cancer than they do in the UK. But their quality of life is often terrible. More treatment does not necessarily mean better care.

I would regard the medicalised approach and having an og/gyn instead of midwife led care a plus. If you want a doctor in the room for your delivery in the UK you have to get a caesarean. A bit extreme but people do it.

'Would rather be back in the USA and bankrupt.'

You still don't have any insurance when you're bankrupt if you haven't got it through your job, and yep, you still have to pay.

It's such fun when you're making $8/hour, too.

Oh, yes, it was terrific going bankrupt because of their shite excuse for healthcare.

I'm glad to have seen the back of that place in that respect.

Oh yes they do kill people here due to lack of resources etc. Big time.

The nurse patient ratios are a problem mostly on the general adult wards..the medical wards...the places that grandma gets admitted to if her congestive cardiac failure starts to kick off.

Leonie, I want a doctor who has the resources to do his job. I don't care about anything else.