To think that the woman who got hit by a policeman at the G20 protests shouldn't now be making money out of it...

[Pheebe]

Heard her say on the news this morning that she thinks the policeman should have asked her politely to move away!!! She was screaming at him like a hariden, wouldn't back off when he asked and signalled her to, he's in the middle of a braying mob and he should ahve asked her politely!!!

O and wasn't it lucky all the cameras were on hand to capture the moment and pass it on to the press.

I don't condone violence of any sort and agree the police need to uphold the highest standards but I'd be more convinced about her sincerity if she'd said any money she makes was going to Ian Tomlinsons family...after all she claims to have been there for a 'peaceful vigil' following his death.

Right, rant over, off to play in the garden with ds for a bit...

oooo I nearly started a thread about Mr Clifford now acting as her PR Manager too

Her "sincerity" has nothing to do with it. It appears that she was viciously assaulted, by someone paid to uphold the law. Or do you think she was asking for it, OP? or somehow "fitting up" the PC?

She might well be horrid - I don't know, and I don't care - but it is the PC who has committed a crime, not her.

Having watched the video and heard her bleating about it being a 'peaceful' protest and that she moved back as soon as the policeman told her to, and that he just viciously whacked her across the face.... I'm inclined to agree with Pheebe. Her story doesn't match up with the footage, and yes, how convenient that it happened to be a young(ish) quite petite looking woman and that there happened to be someone filming it....clearly a set-up?

Firepile - you state that the policeman has committed a crime. I thought he had been suspended pending investigation? When was he convicted of a crime then?

I don't think she should be making money out of it - after this could have been her intention from the start. I do think it needs a thorough independent investigation though.

after all

A policeman thumps a "petite looking woman"
Thank feck someone was filming it, or I expect he'd have got away with denying it.

He'll no doubt get his compensation for stress anyway.

Policemen really should be able to cope with people shouting at them. If they're so delicate that they lose self-control when someone yells at them then they're not fit for the job.

I don't understand your assumption that members of the public who are highlighting oppressive behaviour by the police (as this woman was doing) should politely 'back off' the minute a policeman orders them to do so. This isn't North Korea.

He was in the middle of a 'braying mob' because of the sickening, deliberate tactics that the Met use to stifle legitimate protest.

Thank God there were cameras there to record it. We'd never have found out about the shocking incidents around the G20 protests if people HADN'T had the presence of mind to record them. The lies that the polive have so liberally spread would have been widely believed. Instead, the public has got to see some of the truth. I guess you think that's a shame?

Has she said she's making money from it?

I think her calling the police 'scum' was a bit uncalled for but by then I think he had already hit her. I don't think it's acceptable in any way for a policeman to slap anyone across the face unless it's to stop someone from committing a crime/escaping from a crime scene. Nor is it acceptable to hit someone with a baton just because they are screeching at you.

It was a protest FFS, if that policeman's only response to being in that environment is to get physical with his fists and baton then a I would hope that he gets the training he needs to do his job properly.
Clearly that particular policeman is not suitable for that kind of peacekeeping duty and I think he should be moved to some kind of desk duty until he gets the training he is lacking.

I agree with PW. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the PC.

Violethill - you're technically correct about the fact that he hasn't (yet) been convicted of a crime, and I should have made that clear.

However, the evidence that a crime (assault) was committed looks pretty clear to me. And as far as I am aware, there is no defence of provocation.

And the point is that this was not an isolated incident that day - there are loads of witness accounts from people who say that they were assaulted by the police, but they happened not be being filmed.

thoroughly depressing way to spend 20 minutes if you're so inclined

I have to say I am inclined to say she was both asking for it and perhaps even fitting him up. It is a known tactic of protesters these days to do just that.

If you look at some of the wider shots of the actual protests you'll see that the police were heavily outnumbered by protesters.

As far as I'm aware they were there to maintain public order and protect property. In doing so I understand they are allowed to use reasonable force. What the PC did I would not consider to be a VICIOUS assault - not by any stretch of the imagination. That terminology I would reserve for cases where there is a sustained beating. This wasn't the case. He repeatedly told her to back off, his attention was clearly on the wider picture and she wouldn't back off from him. So yes to some extent I do think she 'asked for it' in as much as it was reasonable for her to assume that the PC would get physical.

oh my god! the 5th video is just horrendous. with the people chanting 'this is not a riot'

Pheebe, do you really think that a woman shouting in a protest is 'asking for it'? By that you mean she was asking to be struck across the face and hit by a baton?

You think that polocemen should be told in their training that the most effective way to deal with a person shouting at them is to strike them in teh face?

blimey.

I have been on a lot of protests when i was younger, many as a child. It scares me to think there are actually people out there who think police powers should include striking protesters who are chanting or shouting!

I am shocked really. and Sad.

and Pheebe have you watched the last video on the lonk PW gave here it shows what led up to the policeman slapping the woman at teh vigil for Ian Tomlinson. If you watch it you will see that the police were rough with a man first (31 seconds in) which made the previously peacful people on the vigil a bit angry. At about 45 seconds a policeman pushes or hits a woman who is off screen. That is when the woman calls him scum. He then slaps her.

hopefully watching the whole thing will make you change your opinion that she was 'asking for it'

I'm shocked too beanieb. I can't beieve people think the PC's actions are in an way justifiable!

Thanks for your illuminating response, Pheebe. Nice to know that the police are now allowed to assault people, just not "viciously" (with you as the arbiter - I guess the truncheon across the leags was as reasonable as the slap, huh?). And Ian Tomlinson was asking for it how? And the other people that Policywonk has linked to? And the other people who have reported similar behaviour from the police?

I guess you think that anyone who was on the streets that day was "asking for it".

Thank goodness that most people (and the law) do not "assume that the PC would get physical".

No thats not what I mean at all. Of course not. I don't think she was 'asking to be hit' but her behaviour warranted and required more than a polite 'please step away'. If you behave in an aggressive way then imo you must accept the possibility of people (whoever they are) responding aggressively back.

Its very easy to get on your (generic your of course) and criticise someone for questioning the actions of the protestors isn't it.

Perhaps we should allow civil unrest to take its course then. Anyone remember the Brixton riots? The innocent members of the public and police who died then?

What would be an effective way for the police to deal with a large mob of people, clearly intent on civil unrest, behaving threateningly and aggressively. I find it interesting that everyone is saying how awful it was for the poor little girl and how terrible the PC was but no one is saying what they think would be an appropriate way to deal with this situation.

Legitimate peaceful protest is one thing - what that girl was involved in was far from peaceful imo

I don't agree at all. The police are shockingly outnumbered in that video and they look frankly terrified, there's a woman officer at the front facing the man who was pushed back 2 seconds earlier. They have gone into a standard formation where they are facing the crowds but they just look so heavily outnumbered and they look very stressed as a group.

I took part in many demonstrations and have seen plenty of police aggression (on the poll tax demo in London me and my friend were chatting when this guy raised his baton and told me to 'get my cunt back behind the line or he would put his baton in it' - we hadn't noticed the line had moved cos we were chatting - does not excuse his behaviour)

What that woman did was disgraceful and I do think she was deliberately inflaming a situation.

Pheebe, by hte same token the police are 'asking for' vicious assaults from protestors because of their kettling tactics. It's dreadful reasoning.

The Met is out of control on this issue. It's taking a kicking, and a good thing too. I hope it will prompt a serious rethink.

Why would anyone ever want to be a policeman or woman?
It really is the most thankless job imagineable.

You don't get any credit for the countless jobs that go smoothly, but show any sign of weakness or being human and there are people delightedly broadcasting it to the world.

That really is sad.

yes the police pushed back a man a few seconds earlier and then the woman protester accuses them by saying 'what are you doing to that woman' - I think she is deliberately saying it's a woman (when it was a man) because the camera is behind her.

'If you behave in an aggressive way then imo you must accept the possibility of people (whoever they are) responding aggressively back.'

So you DO think it's fine for protestors to return the violence meted out by the police?

I suspect that there were many incidents where the police used unecessary force. I;ve seen various bits of footage, and even allowing for the fact that there will have been some careful editing, there are some pretty ugly scenes which suggest that the police are acting brutally.

To go back to the OP though, which was about one particular woman - what she says afterwards clearly does NOT match up with the footage, where she is advancing towards the policeman and shouting abuse, NOT backing off as she later claims. Unfortunately people like this who probably ARE trying to set something up are undermining the genuinely peaceful protesters.

Fireplile (I haven't directly named anyone on this thread despite the nasty and sustained attacks towards me for expressing an opinion), I certainly do no believe Ian Tomlinson was in any way asking for anything nor do I say that at any point.

I do find it sad that people so clearly supportive of legitimate protest find themselves unable to do anything but snear at someone expressing an opinion and open to discussion on this subject. Just because you believe something does not make it true/right/correct.

And still no one has any suggestions as to how the police should have maintained order and public safety...