To cancel a play date because of dd's behaviour today?

[milkysallgone]

She is 4. We have just come back from playing at a friend's house and dd was fine up until just before we left. We had the worst behaviour I have ever seen from dd! I had to physically manhandle her to the car as she was violently attacking me!

We are supposed to meet up with another friend tomorrow. Should I hold firm and cancel? I also feel really bad letting the friend's dd down.

Nekabu, I am pretty certain that my Dcs mind works exactly like yours did!

Gorionine, phew, I was beginning to think I must have been the worst child in history! I just hope dd doesn't take after me in the naughtiness stakes ...

this idea of not punishing awful antisocial behaviour is totally bollocks in mho.

come on! franny i am interested in your post: how do you manage with your dc then? do you end up having a child who is nasty to other children on a regular basis, disobedient, manipulative, complete pain in the bum etc?

My ds behaves well most of the time because he knows he will be punished if he steps out of line which happens very rarely, the thing is if you punish bad behaviour then they will behave well and will hardly behave badly.

Sorry but have friends who follow this wishywashy liberal permissive way of bringing up kids and it is annoying seeing the kids getting away with murder. Remember well that you may put up with your kids' bad behaviour ,but no one else will and you will end up being ostracised. Hi Damon got your text!!!!

The punishment/consequence only works (IME) thus: "If you don't stop that racket then we won't be going to xxxx's tomorrow".
This way the child can decide the outcome. If you just say "Shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP" (or words to that effect) I can't see how or why the child should stop.
When he/she eventually calms down THEN you come up with the consequence, well I can't see any reason why the child doesn't start screaming again. They are going to be punished anyway if you get my drift.

Perhaps someone else can explain more coherently. I'm trying to write an essay on - wait for it - children's emotional well-being and my brain is frying as we speak

ellingwoman, I do totally agree wit your first sentence but not quite understand the rest of your post (do not worry yet, english is not my first language)

This is not what I do but I suppose a child who is told to "shut up" could stop for that reason only?
""When he/she eventually calms down THEN you come up with the consequence, well I can't see any reason why the child doesn't start screaming again. They are going to be punished anyway if you get my drift.""

Do you mean that you let the child get on with tantrum, wait until he/she calms down and then say "because you have been so misbehaved you will not got XYZ play date"? It does not make sense to me but it is maybe not what you actually meant.

Yes that's what I meant in my own little way!

If you come up with the consequence after the tantrum, the child can't put it right. Whereas if you let them know the consequence during the tantrum they start to understand they can manage their own behaviour.

Help! Needed! Someone who's better at explaining than me

No! I mean no, that is NOT what I meant. Jeez

No help needed anymore I do understand now! We are actually saying the same thing and I tought you were saying the opposit! I was thinking it was rather harsh to wait for the child to actually calm down before dishing the consequence!

ellingwoman, put the pensil down now! Go and make yourself a cup of tea with wast amount of sugar in it!

forgot

Hah! Good idea!

"If you just say "Shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP" (or words to that effect) I can't see how or why the child should stop."

Because their parent has told them to do so. Within reason I think a child should do what it is told to do. Of course that doesn't always happen, which is why there is then a consequence to the child's bad behaviour. It then learns that if it ignores the parent's request there is a consequence, with the idea being the child obeys when asked rather than having to get anywhere near the punishment stage. Why should a child 'see' why it is asked to remain holding it's parent's hand whilst out walking? You and I know it's to keep it safe from the traffic but the child is a child and often doesn't really understand that, so just saying "stay with me and keep hold of my hand" needs to be enough. Why should a child understand that going close to my horse's feet could be dangerous? Sometimes you're not going to have half an hour to explain why you're asking them to do/not to do something, which is why it is important they learn that a parental request should be obeyed in the first place.

"do you end up having a child who is nasty to other children on a regular basis, disobedient, manipulative, complete pain in the bum etc?

My ds behaves well most of the time because he knows he will be punished if he steps out of line which happens very rarely, the thing is if you punish bad behaviour then they will behave well and will hardly behave badly.

Sorry but have friends who follow this wishywashy liberal permissive way of bringing up kids and it is annoying seeing the kids getting away with murder. Remember well that you may put up with your kids' bad behaviour ,but no one else will and you will end up being ostracised."

this is really quite a rude post full of incorrect assumptions

therefore i don't feel like answering your question - tbh i don't think you actually wanted to know the answer so i don't expect you will mind

think you need to follow thru with your punishment, and that leaving big explantions about unfairness and rethinks and different punishments is for older children who havea bit more cognitive reasoning an thinking thru skills.

very good posts Nekabu and hotbot.

Take it he won't be wearing one of these:

blogs.guardian.co.uk/worldcup06/penguin.jpg

Oh dear God. Wrong thread ... so sorry

Botty, You are on the wrong thread, you are after this one

LOL!

Thank God I realised!

I agree that most times talking and reasoning works well with children but sometimes IMO needs to be topped up with a bit action/consequence thing.
When dds was very very small she would not understand/believe me that the radiator was hot for example so I made her hand touch it really quickly (not to get burnt at all but just to feel the heath obviously) and she got it immediately.
I have given sall punishments to my dd on seldom occasions for mibehaving especially in public. she understood then that that behaviour was not accepted by her parents. When the next tme her friend bisbehaved creating havoc and shocking dd I reinforced and explained why I did not tollerate it from her and why the punishment. Never ever agin she misbehaved in similar ways and it only needs to remind her of how 'not nice' is to be at the other hand of the stick to rein her in.Maybe punishment is not even the right word. How would you call leaving the restaurant/playarea/friend house/park/supermarket if/when child misbehave/throws a tantrum etc? Is that all right?

Maybe what someone was trying to say is that is very hard and annoying and frustrating to have a playdate misbehave, maybe in your own house or against your own children, and see the parents take no action.
I'd genuinely like to know how tantrum and strops and bad behaviour can be avoided in different ways?

Well all I can say is - my children turned out lovely

Am signing off now, off to the New Forest first thing. Happy Easter everyone!

why is everybody going to the New Forest?

My children are lovely too. First one an absolute angel so nothing to do with me. The second one with a wild streak...god help me!

happy easter ellingwoman, have a great time.