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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

4yr old boy behaviour...

31 replies

wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:10

DS is four, not started school yet. Has a friend who is generally not that nice to him. All 4-yr-old stuff but it upsets him - he doesn't understand. So the other boy will call him a baby and say his toys are rubbish, play quite roughly and jump on him even though my son is saying 'no' and doesn't want to fight/play fight.

Now I know that kids are kids. But his mother dismisses it all as 'oh, he's being a boy...'. I think he's rude and my instinctive reaction is that this boy doesn't have a very nice nature. Then I think, god, this is a four year old child, don't judge. Other mothers have commented on this boy's aggressive behaviour, and I generally defend the boy as I really don't like labeling such a young child!

Am I being over-protective? Is it normal for children to behave like that? And I feel quite irritated with his mother for not picking him up on it. AIBU?

OP posts:
hester · 30/03/2009 22:15

I've never had a four year old boy, so I don't know how normal it is. But is that the important issue here? Your concern should be YOUR son: is this friendship good for him or not? If, generally, he likes this boy and gets a lot from the friendship, then the occasional rough behaviour is an opportunity for your boy to learn some coping skills, pre-school. If the friendship is upsetting and undermining for your son, then you need to gently extricate him from it.

As for your relationship with the mother: my sympathies! It's not easy when one of your kids is bashing seven bells out of the other, THAT I know from bitter experience.

Baconsarnie · 30/03/2009 22:16

I don't think you sound over-protective. You just don't want your DS getting called names and pushed around. Totally fair enough. Have you tried telling the boy off when he does that to your DS? Just a firm "no, we don't play like that" or something. The other mother might get the message then that her DS's behaviour isn't acceptable.

solidgoldbrass · 30/03/2009 22:22

I have a 4-year-old DS and I would not let him behave like this to another child. when mine doesIf mine did any of that in my sight/hearing he would be called over, told that wasn't acceptable and that if he couldn't play nicely he'd be going home.
What I mean is, yes, this is reasonably typical 4-year-old behaviour, they are still moderately sociopathic at 4 ie still in the process of learning that other people's feelings and wishes matter just as much as theirs. And if preschoolers are squabbling but appear to be fairly evenly matched, let them sort it out but if one child is persisting with doing something that is distressing the other one, then the aggressive child needs a quick time-out.

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:23

Thanks hester, that is really what am trying to assess. The boy's mother is in the process of splitting from her partner, so I'm a little more reluctant to just withdraw from the friendship, but I am quite concerned about the effect on my DS. But then I wonder am I being too sensitive, and he'll have to learn to cope with a bit of unpleasantness as he starts school.

Bacon, I do say no, and - god, I really don't like saying this - now the other boy watches me and as soon as I turn away he starts being nasty. He knows I keep my eye on him!

It seemed they'd be in different schools so thought I'd just keep my eye on them then let the friendship wither once they start school, but it seems they will be in the same class from Sept.

OP posts:
Alambil · 30/03/2009 22:24

I hate that whole "boys will be boys" shit - it's just a convenient excuse for boys to be horrid to eachother.

Would your DS tell the other kid to back off? I taught DS to say "NO, go away" at that age - easy, simple and clear.

There's a kid in DS's class (they're 6 now) that's rough and "just being a boy" - he has done all sorts of horrid things to the other kids and he's finding out that they don't want to play with him any more which is really sad IMO

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:27

solidgold, that is part of the problem, the other mother thinks the behaviour is just 'boisterous boys' stuff. But none of my son's other friends are like it - the odd push and punch over a toy, but this is different. The other boy will blow raspberries in his face (my son says he is spitting at him), call him a baby etc. It actually seems quite spiteful rather than impulsive toddler behaviour. But then I wonder whether it is fair to say that a four year old is 'spiteful'. But the mother isn't doing anything to address it.

OP posts:
Dillydaydreamer · 30/03/2009 22:29

I'm with solidgoldbrass on this.
I have the problem in reverse in that my 3yo dd (3yo) is trying to bully my 4.9yo mindee (boy). I take both to one side make dd apologise and ask her how she would like it if he did the same back. I also do now not intervene if he retaliates or tell him not too and if dd comes crying/tale telling she gets told that if she doesn't like it she shouldn't do it to other people.

screamingabdab · 30/03/2009 22:29

I have had two 4 year old DSs, and totally agree with solidgoldbrass.

Yes, it's normal for some boys to be like this, but no, it's not acceptable, for boys or girls (I hate that boys will be boys get-out clause from the mum. If she carries on like that he WILL turn into an unpleasant 5+ year old).

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:31

Lewis, this is it. I feel for the child - his father has left in the last few months. His baby brother has just been born. In one way he's a textbook case for a child that hasn't been given enough emotional support! But to what extent to I think - this is not my problem - and back off and stop seeing them? Or do I hope he'll grow out of it.

I have tried to teach my son to say 'stop that!' etc rather than get upset. Or he tells me, rather than hitting back - but given the other mother doesn't see the behaviour as a problem, the telling me doesn't result in much action against the other boy! I say 'no' or 'be nice to each other' but the other mother ignores it all.

OP posts:
Dillydaydreamer · 30/03/2009 22:32

Yes it is fair to say that a four year old can be spiteful.
I am ashamed to say that my 3yo is spiteful at the moment

screamingabdab · 30/03/2009 22:32

I think that children who behave like this do it in a misguided search for some boundaries, so your instinct that he knows what he is doing may be correct

solidgoldbrass · 30/03/2009 22:33

I don't think the 4-year-old is 'spiteful' or Evil or anything: he is only 4 and by the sound of it unhappy and acting out. I think his mother's being a twat (and not doing her own DS any favours). I think when they are in your house you're entitled to say firmly to this little boy to stop that, we don't do that in this house etc - also teach your DS to say firmly 'Stop that, I don't like it,go away.'
If the other mum is too caught up in her own troubles to stop her DS becoming a bully, if you can do the gentle-but-firm thing with him you are helping him as well as your own DS: give him encouragement/attention/praise when he plays nicely so he will at least pick up on the idea.

screamingabdab · 30/03/2009 22:34

dillydaydreamer X post - I wasn't talking about YOUR DC.

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:35

screaming, that is the bit that worries me. He is quite sly about it. And I hate, hate, hate thinking this about such a young child.

But my instinct is he knows I'm strict, he looks out to me to see if I'm watching before he starts. His life and my son's life have been very similar - same swimming school, kids clubs etc - and I think there is a bit of competition/tussling for position going on.

OP posts:
Dillydaydreamer · 30/03/2009 22:36

screamingabdab I completely agree and you could be talking about my dd as she is pushing the boundries to the limits and driving me nuts!

Dillydaydreamer · 30/03/2009 22:37

I agree with SGB.

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:40

solidgold, I x-posted. I have tried the praise for good behaviour, my rules in my house approach. But we are now nearing the time when the boys will be in school together and I won't have the influence.

I just feel so worried that my son will be bullied and will not settle at school. And I think should I start to avoid this other boy, and his mother, from now so that my son isn't such a focus for the aggressive behaviour by the time they start in Sept.

While I was at home with them I could influence the behaviour a bit. I thought they'd be in different schools, but that looks less likely now. I think the responses have confirmed my view that there is an issue, though, so I feel a bit more determined to deal with it, rather than wonder whether I'm unreasonable and raising a namby-pamby (which is clearly what the other mother thinks of me!).

OP posts:
KHS · 30/03/2009 22:41

Wow - your little visitor sounds just like someone we know! Or, should I say, used to know. I found I couldn't leave them to play on their own as it would spin out of control with stuff being broken and rude things being said, screaming and crying and general unpleasantness. I started to realise I didn't get on with his mother either-we have very different boundaries. She'd allow full on screaming for ages up and down the house as they were just 'expressing themselves'... Not in my house, they're not!

I did talk to her and tell her that I didn't think our kids played very well together and that I found her son very aggressive, but nothing changed. I wastedspent so much time supervising their play when I really shouldn't have had to, and getting really stressed about seeing them. So I finally broke off contact recently and am much happier for it.

I suppose the difference here is that you get on with the mum but not the little boy, whereas my boys loved their little friend and talk about him often. Maybe you can start seeing the mum in the evenings instead for a while, instead of on play dates? Sounds like she's going through a tough time and that's probably rubbing off on her child. If you get together over a bottle of wine it might be possible to raise some of the issues in a gentle way without having to watch the kids at the same time. It's a tough one - depends how close you two are really. If you're not very, I'd back off in this situation and find less negative company for my DCs, definitely.

screamingabdab · 30/03/2009 22:42

Dilly My younger DS was like this too (he is now nearly 6, and lovely most of the time)

I bet this boy is feeling pretty angry at the moment.

OP, you can't be responsible for this boy, but I understand you wouldn't maybe want to completely withdraw. In the end you'll have to weigh up the costs vs benifits to your DS of having playdates

KHS · 30/03/2009 22:43

Forgot to say I have 4 year old twin boys and totally agree that 'boys will be boys' is a load of old rubbish.

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:44

That's it - I cannot leave them alone. The other children go off to the bedroom to play, but I can't even leave the room when this other boy is there. I have a younger child too and he picks on her when there's an opportunity. Now I'm writing this down I'm wondering why I haven't done something about it before.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 30/03/2009 22:44

Bear in mind that, should this other boy bully your DS in school it will become a school issue (though how good the school will be at dealing with bullying in general is something that will remain to be seen). If it's a reasonably good school then your DS will be protected from bullying and the other boy helped to stop behaving like a bully, no matter how useless his mother is.

Original poster
wonderingwondering · 30/03/2009 22:50

Do you think so solidgold? My concern is that as a lot of the behaviour is quite sly, all the teacher will see is my son having enough and pushing him (which happens after a certain amount of needling). Then my son gets the name for being aggressive. And I feel cross about that as I've worked so bloody hard to drill that instinct to hit back out of him!

OP posts:
KHS · 30/03/2009 22:53

It's a really tricky situation, but I'm sure it will only be the first of many to come so it's good to get some practice!

I eventually broke it off quite abruptly and felt terribly guilty, but then the general relief took over. Hallelujah!

I just kept on avoiding calls and texts until she finally got the message. Sad, but sometimes it isn't possible to resolve these things gracefully. She's in a difficult marriage but there is nothing I can do to help her - she doesn't want to talk about it, just pretends everything is hunky dory. I tried hard to set boundaries for her son but it was no contest with the influences he had from home (super macho dad, etc.) So out was definitely the way to go for us.

solidgoldbrass · 30/03/2009 23:23

WW: well if the problem persist at school you could say to the teacher that there has been a history of difficulties with this boy (don't do it as a pre-emptive strike though as that would be horribly unfair to the other boy to have him labelled as a bully before he has had the chance to settle into school). There is also the fact that, at school your DS will have the chance to make friends with other children and more chance to avoid this boy.