To want you to sign this petition?

[HenriettaJones]

Ok, so this might be a cheeky use of this thread, but I hope I have got your attention, and may also get your sympathy!

I am sure that many of you have experienced frustrations when it comes to Primary School applications. If so, you have my sympathy.

In St Albans, Herts, primary schools are notoriously oversubscribed. The three most central schools only have a one form intake, making 90 central places available.

This year, out of those 90 places only 21 didn't go to siblings, 4 of those 21 were special needs/special circumstances. So just 17 children lived close enough to get a place.

The county council has got the funding for a new school but rejects the idea that St. Albans needs one. Instead, parents are being asked to take 4 year olds over a mile away to schools which are 8, 9, 10 schools away!

Please support our cause and sign this petition!

www.gopetition.co.uk/online/26564.html

I agree with Cat tbh.

also, iirc are you saying that it is wrong to give priority to the siblings of children who are already at the school? I think siblings should always get priority because surely a parent can't be expected to get their children to different schools each morning

I am sure that a lot of the siblings do live close to the school, but many live 4 times the distance (and we have the figures to prove this)

HOWEVER, I am not talking about changing the sibling rules, what I am trying to show is that the current amount of places are already taken by siblings, and that there are enough children in the centre of town to fill a new school.

TBH, there is such an outcry about this (and the fact that many siblings are coming from families who have moved once the first child has got a place) that I think the sibling rule is more likely to be scrapped if we do not get an extra school.

The example of a mile is just an example, the distances range to beyond 3 miles. What is at issue where families live between 1 and 2 miles is that there is no help with transport.

It must be hard for you to imagine the situation without knowing our town.

Imagine a circle with a small but dense nucleus, that's our city centre with 3 schools and many more families than are served by those 3 schools. Then imagine an outer circle (schools 4, 5, 6, 7) which has its own population taking those places (the families in the centre thus don't qualify for places at these schools)

Then you have an outer circle, serving local communities on the outside of town. Most of the children will go to these schools from within the area, but then there are the handful of children who will have to travel out of town to drop children off (and most will then have to get back in to town again for the train station/work.)

The point is, there are enough children in St Albans to fill all these places and then some. Build a new school and the central children get a local school in their own community with their neighbours and nursery friends, and families living even further out get the outskirts places which will then become free.

Like I say, the council are actually sitting on a budget which can afford this.

Just to clarify, my school is 8 schools away, it is over a mile. There are 7 schools within a mile, but 6 of those are one form entry, so it is only like having 3 two form entry schools. And yes, we need more! We are a densely populated town with a lot of young families. And we keep growing.

Other people in our group (SABLE - St Albans Battle for Local Education) are being given schools 9 and 10, nearly 2 miles away.

Furthermore, although a mile is not far to an adult, most people find that with a 4 year old it can take up to 50 minutes. Most people I know will be driving. Across an already very congested town. (I can't drive by the way so this wont be me!)

Surely it would be better to get the existing schools to expand their intake than to try to build a new school from scratch? It really doesn't take most 4 year olds 50 minutes to walk a mile, if it does, could I suggest a scooter?

If you read the petition we are actually asking that the three central schools be expanded for one year only, whilst the new school is being built. A new school will be built, it is just a question of getting the coucil off their backsides to do it sooner rather than later.

But the issue of expanding current schools is a controversial one. Two years ago, the three central schools were each given an extra class for one year only, as there was a shortfall in places. This is what has resulted in this years intake being much fuller with siblings than normal. These are small schools and there is not space to permanently expand them, an extra one off portacabin would be the furthest it could go, which would then have a knock on affect again in a couple of years, hence needing a new school.

Three further schools have been expanded on the outskirts of the city, it is at these schools that many central children have been given places. These expansions are permanent, and will provide much needed places in St Albans, but does not solve the problem for central children.

StewieGriffinsMom how long did it take your DD to walk a mile a 4? How long did it take her to walk a mile and a half? Was she used to walking long distances? I am not disputing what you are saying, just interested. I am only going on what people within our local group have been finding. And when you live a 5 min walk from all you need it can be a real shock to both parents and kids to suddenly have to go further. The 2 mile rule you talk about is not your local LEA rule, it is a national rule, so as I said above help is only available beyond 2 miles, making it more frustrating that the distance is between 1 and 2, rather than a little further.

It isn't just the walk, it is the sense of community. It is one thing where a whole village of children will be travelling a mile or two in the same direction and are in that sense all in it together but it is quite another thing living in a busy town where most children in a given street will be going to a school around the corner while the unlucky 11% have to walk past several other schools to get to their own.

(and those 11% going in opposite directions to one another as they are split among three outer schools, so there is not even a community of us having to do the same thing)

It's just the same here, I will be going over a mile due to the 3 local schools having such small catchment areas.

Isn't it normal?

St Albans v nice though

I do appreciate how you feel because the same thing happened to my child last year (although we were eventually allocated a place at a local school before the year started). It is horrible and you feel powerless and I felt that I had let my child down. But I can't imagine your council will be interested in me signing a petition - good on you for trying to take ownership of the problem and everything but I'm not sure it's going to bring the council to its knees.

St Albans is LOVELY! TBH I am one of the lucky ones as I really like the school we've been given (apart from the distance) Some of the others have rejected their places (which have now been snapped up by others) and now don't have a school place. There are more children than there are places. That's what's at issue here. It's been getting worse every year and they keep squeezing in more classes, but it's never quite been enough!
It is normal for schools to be oversubscribed, but we do have it particularly bad, my nearest school had no places after siblings! You say you'll be going over a mile, will you be walking it every day?

But there are schools within walking in distance or a short drive that are not so oversubscribed. Okay it is not ideal, but I think so long as the majority of siblings are schooled close to one another or in the same school then it isn't quite such a big problem.

?

Look, if you really can't face the walk you have choices: learn to drive; buy a bike with a child seat on the back until your child is old enough to ride his/her own; buy a scooter; use a pushchair. If the school's great, then a mile walk/cycle/scoot/push is a small price to pay and it will soon become part of the routine and you won't really notice it.

I don't have that much sympathy with people who reject schools out of hand and then find that they don't have a place.

I live in St Albans too but I have lived in the NW where my local school was 15 mins drive away and the school of my choice was 25 mins drive away.

I consider myself very fortunate here after that rural experience.

I do feel for you, but honestly - I've never even been to St Alban's, so how valuable is my signature?

Seems to me that lots of random unrelated sigs on an e-petition could possibly devalue what you're trying to achieve here because it's easier to ignore.

it's all very well saying that a new school is needed now, but this isn't just about this year's intake is it?

If a new school is built, are there enough younger children to fill it as the years go by? When you're building a school you have to look to the long-term, and if you build a school in an area where there is currently a young population, what you might find is that in five years time that younger population have grown up and no more children have been born to replace them, thus leaving the new "essential" school of five years ago under-subscribed and struggling financially.

When building a school the bigger picture needs to be considered, and clearly your councel don't consider that there is a long-term need for a new school.

Are there children in your area who haven't been allocated a place at all? Because if not then really there isn't a problem.

Ok, lots of questions to answer!

Is it worth people outside our area signing the petition - YES because a local issue was recently decided on one side having a larger petition, they had petitioned nationally rather than locally. (By the way, we have a hard copy of this petition which already has hundreds of local signatures.) If this is your only concern then please sign! The online part of the petition is to reach a national audience, if we decide that we're better with just the local one then we can always change our mind as it is separate.

Wannabe - no it isn't just about this years intake. It's about the past five years having a shortfall of places and yes, they were hoping that the issue would go away, it hasn't. Hence only now acknowledging (in private) they will need to build a new school. The problem has been getting steadily worse and will continue to get worse. The demographic in St. Albans is not going to change dramatically in the next five years. It is a perfect commuter city and has lots of young professionals. There are babies everywhere you look! It isn't just the high amount of babies that are born here, it is the very high amount of families that move here when their children are 2-3 because the school's have good reputations. Yes, there are children without places.

we are not just a disgruntled few who didn't get our choice of school! There has been poor planning within the council which has resulted in a haphazard hurried quick fix "solutions" which are just worsening the problem.

Lalalonglegs, I haven't rejected my school but I know people who have, and I can see where you are coming from on this, but surely parents have a right to a choice and shouldn't have to just accept a school that is 10 school's away? With regards to your comments about the scoot to school being worth it if I like the school, I agree. But I am not here as an individual, I am here as a spokesperson for an 80 strong group of people! If it was just others in my own situation there wouldn't be a problem, but there is a problem.

As for all the solutions given to my walk (which, by the way, is a 25 min walk at my pace)I have thought all these through many times over, income is a major factor, so car is out. He can bike that distance occasionally but I'm not sure how he'll cope daily, I agree that it'll just become normal to us. My main concerns for us personally - He's knackered after nursery and wont even walk across the road so although I think he'll cope on the way there I'm not sure about the way back. I thought about buggy on the way back but then what do I do with the bike if he has biked there?! And my other concern - really bad weather. Waterproof trousers?!

I know we'll cope though, I don't want this thread to become about that. It is about the bigger picture. I have lived here all my life and the situation has just become appalling. I have had to watch it every year and this is my chance to help families in future years not have to go through it. If you have any sympathy at all, please sign!

By the way my grammar is terrible when I'm cross

we have same problem here (very near St a) they're trying to expand the intakes at the existing schools but another one needs to be built.

I have signed your position.

I hope HCC resolve the situation for you.

Hooray! Some support! Thank you

Actually I signed your petition not your position!