To want you to sign this petition?

[HenriettaJones]

Ok, so this might be a cheeky use of this thread, but I hope I have got your attention, and may also get your sympathy!

I am sure that many of you have experienced frustrations when it comes to Primary School applications. If so, you have my sympathy.

In St Albans, Herts, primary schools are notoriously oversubscribed. The three most central schools only have a one form intake, making 90 central places available.

This year, out of those 90 places only 21 didn't go to siblings, 4 of those 21 were special needs/special circumstances. So just 17 children lived close enough to get a place.

The county council has got the funding for a new school but rejects the idea that St. Albans needs one. Instead, parents are being asked to take 4 year olds over a mile away to schools which are 8, 9, 10 schools away!

Please support our cause and sign this petition!

www.gopetition.co.uk/online/26564.html

I am grateful for any signing, position, petition, thanks!

Just a little something I found from a recent parliamentary report

14. The statutory distances of over three miles for children over eight, and two miles for children under that age, do not distinguish between urban and rural areas and take no account of the nature of the route. As one witness pointed out, "A walk of a mile across a park, as I do in the morning, is one thing; a walk of a mile along an A road without a footway is quite a different thing".[18] Moreover, they were set when car ownership and the level of traffic was far lower than today.[19]

I think this little quote is fairly relevant to the topic, although I would like to stress that our petition is not just about not wanting to walk over a mile!

I think some of you are concentrating on the number of schools in the district rather than the problem we have in the centre. Imagine the rural equivalent to be that there are two nearby villages, one with an excellent and oversubscribed school and the other with an acceptable school which has a full intake but is not oversubscribed. Imagine 33 children in the village with the good school, 30 get a place, the other 3 have to commute to the other village. Would any of you want to be those 3? And see the other 30 daily at the local park and yet not be at the same school as them?

For us it is the same. We are in a large district which incorporates several towns and villages. In the centre of town we are like a village. A village that has a school's worth of children needing a place!

Money is not an issue! So why not build a new school?

southeaster will you sign?

So much for threatening the current siblings rule - have you thought through the consequences of losing it? What happens when people like yourself find, with the needs of their growing family, they would like to move out of the town centre for a bit more space, and, perhaps within walking distance of one of the much sought after state secondary schools (you think not getting your choice of primary school in St Albans is tough, wait till you enter the murky world of secondary transfers.....!)? A lot of families move `out of area' for that very reason, and the siblings rule at least means they only have one lot of journeys rather than several. No school can be expected to guarantee places for any combination of siblings who happen to move into the area. It makes sense on both sides to take the siblings from the beginning, however galling it is to those trying to get their 1st children in. The irony is that a few years after getting that coveted primary school place for DC1, many families in St Albans find their town centre address is no good for getting into the secondary school of their choice, and they up and move anyway - however attached they thought they were to their starter community!

Have you thought about targetting the people in and around St A that are affected? Why not ring BBC 3 Counties radio and see if they'll cover it? They usually like local stuff like this

The same problem will happen here too (hemel) soon due to the council closing schools and building houses instead ....

Just where those new kids will go is beyond me!

Thank you LewisFan, yes we have been on 3 counties radio and are campaigning locally, the online petition is to reach a wider audience so please sign if you support us!

Niccola, we are not threatening the sibling rule! We are asking for a new school so that both siblings and first children will have local school places! Other counties have amended the sibling rule and it is likely that if we don't get a new school Herts CC will have to do the same. I don't want this, nor do you, so support our new school!

As for moving for secondary, some of us don't have the money to move to bigger houses in better locations....so we get the local secondary that no one wants but we don't get the local primary that everyone wants! We are a part of the community, I have been for 30 years, and yes, it means a lot to me.

As I understand it, the campaign behind this petition, SABLE, quite clearly sets out to dismantle the siblings rule as it stands. There is nothing `green' about breaking up siblings and forcing families to do do several simultaneous school runs across town. A strong family ethos is important to the well being of schools. Once you lose that, you will lose the main driving force behind what makes these schools so desirable, namely the input from the very motivated and committed parents. You will be creating the conditions for undersubscribed indifferent schools which, at least you won't mind walking to. The requirement to take a long term view applies all round, and one should be very careful what one asks for.

I beg your pardon but your "understanding" of things is incorrect...

What has led you to believe that "SABLE, quite clearly sets out to dismantle the siblings rule" ?

How would a new school break up the sibling rule? Have you read the petition?

I can't quite understand why people are thinking that SABLE is aiming to dismantle the sibling rule. That is not how I read it at all. St Albans clearly has a problem with lack of school places and a group of parents have got to together to address the problem with the aim of getting the LEA to fund a new school, why do people have a problem with that?

The article in last week's Herts Advertiser is pretty unequivocal. If that is not SABLE's stance then they have been misrepresented. I do not have a problem with the call for a new school, but to suggest changing the siblings rule as an alternative does cloud the issue.

We had a similar issue in our town last year. Nobody called for the sibling rule to be changed, we all appreciated that as first time parents we bore the brunt of the problem but if the sibling rule was abolished we would be likely to face the problem again when it came to applying for places for our younger children!

Thank you ForeverOptimistic for your support.

Niccola, "I do not have a problem with the call for a new school, but to suggest changing the siblings rule as an alternative does cloud the issue."

I think you are mixing the two issues together. They are obviously linked, as parents of children who have failed to get local places we are obviously going to question why. Two of the obvious reasons are the sibling rule and the lack of places. The petition tackles the lack of places - not the sibling rule. This thread is discussing the lack of places - not the sibling rule.

If you "do not have a problem" with the call for a new school - why all the aggro on this thread? I suggest you start your own one about the sibling rule....

If you support the idea of a new school please sign the petition!

Hello Henrietta

Just wanted to offer my support really, especially as you're getting a bit of a pasting (such is AIBU). I live in St Albans City Centre and though my youngest dc is towards end of Primary (ie so it doesn't affect me) I thoroughly support the move for a new school. I think it's very difficult to understand the position and sympathasise unless you live in SA and are aware of the demographic issues and educational provision in the city.

There has been a lot of misreporting on school places issue in the local press recently - on SABLE, Abbey school admissions and secondary admissions which just cause unnecessary angst.

I've already been through the secondary applic nightmare once and will do so again next year.

Have you tried the local councillors and local council candidates? Elections on 6 June so I thought they'd be round grubbing for vote winners ...

I'll sign the petition and good luck

Thank you so much QueenofHerts! Yes I should've realised that I was going to get a battering on this thread!

I have written to my local councillors but as it is a county issue they haven't replied taken an interest. But SABLE have met with Lib Dem councillor Chris White and MP Anne Main, and we are going to meet with the Council's Education person next week. Yes, I think the time is ripe to make them do something when they want our votes!

I think people are starting to realise that at SABLE we are not evil sibling-haters! We have had several Aboyne Lodge parents sign our petition, especially when they realise it says nothing about changing the sibling rule.

All support is much appreciated!

Hi HenriettaJones! What's the latest on the schools' issue, has it been resoved?

I feel your pain somewhat, we lived in St Albans for a while, Marshalswick to be precise and my youngest brother was allocated a (secondary) school in Hemel Hempstead...ridiculous journey involving 4 buses and his bike. After much battling, my mum got him a place at Nicholas Breakspeare but my goodness it was a fight!

Not read all the posts I admit, but am I missing something here? You're complaining because you might have to travel a MILE or more to reach a school???

I lived on the edge of a small city when DDs were little. I rejected the sink estate unacceptable local school and instead walked 12 miles rain or shine as I was lucky enough to have obtained places in an excellent school in the city centre (ie my girls walked 6 miles per day). I did this journey from when DD2 was less than 4 years old and DD1 was 5, AND I did it throughout the weeks that I had to make the subsequent daily 4 bus round trip to have radiotherapy. Taking a bus was pointless as it was invariably late and took ages to reach it's destination, but on the odd occasions we did, I paid our fares myself of course (albeit from a lone parent's sickness benefit income).

Sorry, but, a MILE??? Whats the problem?

I don't live in St.A, but my nan does. She home tutors Y6 pupils. I have spoken to her at length about this issue, she has signed the petition, and I am just about to. Abolishing the sibling link is POINTLESS, they have done this in my local area (not the whole of my county, just ALL of the local primary & secondary schools). When I moved to this area of my town, my DD was in Y2. There were 4 primary schools in my area(ish) then. My DD got put in the one that was furthest away from me, that was 1.98 miles away as the crow flies. But 2.8 miles on the only safe walking route. I couldn't get transport paid, despite being out of work. I put my DD on the waiting list for all 3 closer schools. She didn't get a place. 4 years later, I applied to get DS1 into the school. His year was so small that he automatically got a place. 2 years after that, I applied to the school for DS2. He didn't get offered the school, OR any of the other 3 schools locally. HE got offered a school right across the town, despit me having 2 other children that were unable to get themselves to school, and me notdriving, and being an LP. I managed to get him in on appeal, but am now tied to a school that is too far away for my DC's to walk to that I can't get my transport paid for another 5 years. My children don't have a sense of community as all their friends live a long way away from them.

In September 2009, a new school was opened in my area. Yet this year, a lot of my friends are not likely to have got their DC's (who have an older sibling at my DC's primary school) into ANY of the local schools, as there is no sibling link, and our council admits that yet another new school needs to be built to open September (that won't be!) to cope with all the children in our area.

This year, in my end of my town, there is : new school (1-form entry due to site restrictions), school A (1.5 form entry), school B (2 form entry), School C (2 form entry), School D (3 form entry-with site restrictions that will impact on my DC's education, as it is my DC's school and it's the second 3 form entry in 2 years). Yet we STILL will have 42 children without school places in a reasonable distance, due to house building. We've also got HUGE problems coming with Secondary, just in time to affect DS1 & DS2, but that's another thread...

I WILL sign this petition, knowing what schools you are on about + layout of St.A. Good luck, and I hope you get a better result than our area!!

is this whole debate about a 3 mile walk to school - what's the problem?