But shouldn't we, as a nation, be less precious about sex education?

[tattifer]

Ok, as a nation is a horribly broad spectrum generalisation.

What I really want to know is surely if words like condom were used on a day to basis in front of our very young children they wouldn't be too nervous about talking about them, or asking us about them when they're old enough to use them?

I know, "old enough" is a dangerous one as well - and another issue. Isn't it time we stopped pretending that we as a nation have a stupidly high teenage pregnancy rate and change our obviously unsuccessful piano-leg hiding attitude to sex education?

And no, this isn't meant to turn into a teenage mum bashing session - I'd rather bash the system that didn't inform them sufficiently to make the right choices in the first place...

Phew, catch breath, hope first thread on MN goes well...

of course we should.

And I do - was explaining cervical cancer (as she asked obviously) to dd aged 10 yesterday.

IMO sex, love, gardening should all be part of everyday conversation

It's tricky to be open and honest and use correct terms in front of small children, because when they repeat those things in front of other people's children, who then repeat them to their parents, you're likely to get some very strong negative reactions! You might even worry that you'll get social services coming round to find out why your child is talking about condoms in such a matter-of-fact way.

So even parents who would, left to themselves, be open about it, won't until their children get old enough to know what's repeatable and what isn't.

I dunno. I think kids today have FAR more information than they've ever had and they're doing much more than they ever used to! Seems like they get all this sex education theory and rush out to find a lab partner for the practical. I sometimes wonder if we'd be better off going back to the days when they didn't know anything!

I agree with you. I am refusing to shy away from the truth with my DS, who is only 4 yrs old. I would never push information on to him, but if he asks, I tell him. So far, he knows the words penis and vagina, and that babies come out of mummy's vagina (or sometimes her tummy!). As soon as he seems to be interested in where babies come from - or anything else of a sexual nature - I will be 100% honest with him. I see no need to shelter children from reality, as long as it is led by them. I remember my mum telling me quite openly what her tampons were for (when I asked her aged about 6 yrs old). Dhe also told me what all the different bits of my privates were called, what periods were, all about contraception (even showed me her diaphragm!) - all after I had inquired about these things. She had a very strict Catholic upbringing and a baclstreet abortion in her late teens (), so I think she was all too aware of how 'protecting' children from their own sexuality was self defeating. Much better to be open and honest.

It is everyday conversation in our house. Always has been. Ds1 was informed enough to use contraception (knew where to get it and how to use it) and asked for my advice about going to FP clinic with his gf. She got the implant just before her 16th birthday.

So it worked in that she didn't get pg and they have no plans to but they were having sex before they were 16. I'd rather they weren't but yes i thik information should be given as a matter of course. Normal everyday stuff.

Right on MrsMattie! We should all stop worrying about 'what other people think' (how do we know, anyway?) and start talking to our children openly about the realities of life in language they can understand. If you think your kids can handle it, chances are they can. We've been chatting lots about death recently and I see no reason to edit the truth - just to explain it in simple language they can understand.

Thank goodness - rational responses! What else did I expect on MN? Silly me

My DDs are now 9 and 11 and I've never faltered at using correct terms or talking about condoms and their uses. I worked on what seemed like a natural assumption that if I made certain words or subjects difficult to talk to when they were little how on earth are they supposed to cut through that barrier when they need to know? They'll never approach the subject for casual enquiry if give them the impression clear it's taboo - so I don't.

As for social services - the kind of graphic hardcore language they regard as warning signs is the childlike phrasings of instructions, couching things in terms of games, not the frank use of every day terms.

I'd be quite happy if one of my children became a teenage parent. We'd support them. I don't see that it is any business of the Government's to be telling my children otherwise.

As for contraceptive advice, there are instructions on the condom packet and I don't think teenagers should be using other forms of contraception as they don't protect against STDs.

hectate - I think they have far more information in a very skewed way. It's often gleaned from the media/tv not in a relalistic way.

I think that a lot of teenagers know a lot more than previous generations about sexual acts but not much more about safe and emotionally happy sex.

and they are fine about talking about blowjobs but aren't used to discussing contraception unless they want to come across as boring.

i think sex should be regularly talked about in little bits in a relaxed manner.

I wasn't thinking so much about condoms or alternatives, as condom protect against stds as well as pregnancy - my 9 year old could tell you that!

It's the education of when and why to have sex. That you don't have to succumb to peer pressure, that the choice is yours and that it's a discussion to share with caring and informed parents.

My DSS (who doesn't live with us) is twelve and giggles hysterically if you mention condoms yet goes on dates with his twelve year old girlfriend. My DDs on the other hand will quite happily show you how to put one on (the obligatory piece of fruit I hasten to add). But they know why, and they know when, they also know what the possible repercussions are.

Why is there always such a big fuss about this.

I haven't talked to DS about condoms because he hasn't asked and such a conversation hasn't come up. If he asked, I would tell him, absolutely. He knows where babies comes from. How they get in and out.

I think instead of analysing all this we should just answer questions appropriately as and when the come up. Tell children in a way that makes them feel secure and unashamed and stop worrying about it all.

Yes, every bit of sex education should reinforce the idea of respect both for themselves and their partners.

I'malsobig on pushing the emotional side of things though my 3 are a littleyoung for that yet. DS (5) just asked things like, what's this? What does it do? How does that happen? etc though I do say,'when two people have feelings for each other...

Yes we should all carry on as we were, don't let the dreaded government interfere etc etc.

I'm taking for granted that most of the posters here are intelligent and intuitive enough to talk to their children appropriately. But if that were true, why oh why so we have one of the highest child pregnancy rates in Europe?

You can be as sensitive as caring as you like, but covering up the legs of the piano (to use my original analogy) is still covering up.

Back also to main bugbear - if you don't allow terms and subjects to become everyday then they become ring fenced and by definition harder to access.

Myredcardigan, I think it is an issue because there is a big difference between you saying you will answer questions as and when they come up and tattifer saying that her children's decision as to when they will have sex will be made via discussion shared with caring and informed parents. That should be a discussion between the two young people, not the parents.

It all just seems a bit helicopter parenting to me, and I think young people need privacy and the chance to make mistakes in love and sex. You can't hold your child's hand forever, and to be doing so in matters of the heart and bedroom seems a bit creepy.

No MillyR, sorry didn't mean they have to discuss it with me first! But if they approach the subject - and the relationship I have currently (teenage hormones notwithstanding!) I'm hoping they'll do it because my approach will always to have open, informed and never to have made a big embarassing deal of it.

Well Milly, the way I see it, all I can do is equip them with the facts and encourage their self-respect and emotional maturity. The rest is up to them. I would never expect them to tell me when they have decided to have sex. If they want to, fine. If they want advice on contraception, fine.

I'm fairly sure they won't be emotionally mature when they first have sex, what teenagers are? All I can hope for is that they are maturish and show respect for themselves and their partner.

DS is only 5 and I already knock lightly on his bedroom door before entering. I see that as part of teaching him how to show respect.

I'm not sure it's creepy to hope that my daughters when they're oh I don't know 16? 17? God forbid 12? comes to me for advice "nearer the time." Rather than take all their advice from the under-informed playground colleagues.

I'm only saying that open communication at the start lays good foundations for open communication when it matters.

leaving kids ill informed enough to make silly mistakes is not quite as intelligent as informing them sufficiently enough to learn by their own positive experiences.

Tattifer, I agree with you about people being open about discussing sex and relationship; i do think it is important as they are such amazing parts of life and teenagers should be able to be responsible and make choices they are happy with.

But I am not convinced that teenagers have babies out of ignorance of contraception; I think a lot of them just want babies, because many of them have little else to look forward to in life and no aspirations.

Oh I know one just like that! Dh's niece - she's been convinced for some time that a child as the only thing she needs in life, not a job. Within days of giving birth she was overheard threatening her newborn about what would happen if he wet his nappy again. sigh

But child pregnancy does come out of ignorance - of its impact on your life, on the power you have to make choices etc. Yes there's a lot of kids who have babies out of some complicated displacement logic etc etc but ignorance is an underlying factor.

Our very british attitude to sex is contributory I'm sure

I have just recieved 200 comment slips on SRE for my school and all except 3 were happy to identify male and female body parts using correct scientific terms from Year 1. Because 3 families didn't want their children to use the word Penis or Vagina we now can't TEACH these terms!

The world has gone mad (or rather my head has!). I think most 5 and 6 year olds know these terms already.

Just to add also, only the same 3 parents objected to mentioning same sex families when talking about "different kinds of family." We can't mention this either now!

herbietea can i shake your hand

Ridiculous

I remember being scoffed at when i mentioned same sex relationships to the then head of current school when a new sex ed course was being discussed

Message withdrawn

Of course you're right. We too have talked to dd about anything and everything that she has shown an interest in since she was old enough to be interested. We haven't done BUMSEX yet though. Might leave that to MN when she gets her own nickname (do you think that would be a modern-day right of passage?)