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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

But shouldn't we, as a nation, be less precious about sex education?

54 replies

tattifer · 20/03/2009 20:09

Ok, as a nation is a horribly broad spectrum generalisation.

What I really want to know is surely if words like condom were used on a day to basis in front of our very young children they wouldn't be too nervous about talking about them, or asking us about them when they're old enough to use them?

I know, "old enough" is a dangerous one as well - and another issue. Isn't it time we stopped pretending that we as a nation have a stupidly high teenage pregnancy rate and change our obviously unsuccessful piano-leg hiding attitude to sex education?

And no, this isn't meant to turn into a teenage mum bashing session - I'd rather bash the system that didn't inform them sufficiently to make the right choices in the first place...

Phew, catch breath, hope first thread on MN goes well...

OP posts:
tattifer · 20/03/2009 21:52

Jux probably

onestonetogo I thought marriage was abstinence!

OP posts:
herbietea · 20/03/2009 21:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

tattifer · 20/03/2009 22:27

Is there such a thing as too open?

The language may have to alter a little to suit the age group but the message can remain as clear surely?

Sounds like you just be justifiably proud of the stance you've taken with your kids.

"I have told both of them when they are ready to have sex then they are to get condoms. If they don't feel comfortable doing this then I will get them for them." - so you're forseeing a situation where they will feel comfortable bringing this right of passage to your attention. Fantastic, but apparently thats creepy

OP posts:
aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 07:59

A so called friend told me i was immoral and that i had not only condoned but encouraged my ds1 and his gf to start having sex

I didn't have a choice as they had made their decision and were already having a sexual relationship when they asked for help getting other contraception. They have been together for 3 years come April. They stay over at each others homes too which apparently is "disgusting"

The same so called friend was horrified and said she would never allow that. I said that i didn't want then doing it in a bus stop etc and she replied that she would rather her dc did that and she would remain ignorant of the fact

I would rather my dc could come and speak to me even if it makes me cringe slightly on occasion.

Pruners · 21/03/2009 08:27

Message withdrawn

aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 08:31

She is no longer a friend Pruners

I wasn't jumping for joy but i'd rather safe sex than a baby iykwim?

Pruners · 21/03/2009 08:50

Message withdrawn

aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 08:56

Do you know i have just done what felt right and muddled through. It's all you can do i think. He seems to be reasonably ok after being brought up by DH and i and the rest are ok so far too so we must be doing a bit of this parenting malarkey right.

How are you doing? Hope you are well xx

Fairynufff · 21/03/2009 09:23

I agree with MillyR and refuse to believe that the teenage pregnancy rate has to do with sex education per se. More to do with social/cultural norms and being financially viable for those who come from generations of people living on benefits.

With my own children I am perfectly honest whenever they ask a sex related question. I found it a bit tricky with my 8 year old DS recently asked "so what actually happens when a man puts his winky into a lady - how does the baby happen?" but I also had to answer "what is a condom?" when he heard the word on a Radio 4 programme discussing Aids in Uganda (on the school run). IME kids listen to the answer then move on with their lives. It doesn't mean my son with suddenly jump a developmental step and start doing it. It just means that when he eventually does, it will be something (hopefully) quite 'normal' to him like 'love and gardening' as LaurieFairyCake said so beautifully.

Pruners · 21/03/2009 09:34

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Fairynufff · 21/03/2009 09:34

Just to add - because I have actually observed a few 'sex education' lessons in secondary schools - they are usually farmed out to the school nurse or reps from the Local Health Authority and they are given in a very clinical way. Kids are given the information from a 'health' perspective. But there is no mention of old fashioned ideas like 'respecting yourself' or abstinence - and I don't mean abstinence until your wedding night but when I was a teenager Jackie magazine et al would always promote the idea of 'saving yourself for someone you really love'. I think that worked well. There were always a couple of girls in the 5th year that got pregnant but it was always shocking and considered a bit tragic.

Now our daughters are fed a diet of 'fuck buddies' 'pole dancing lessons' and 'position of the week'... Where are the militant feminists when you need them?

aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 09:38

fine pruners,kitchen in and nearly finished

I am glad my ds1 and his gf have been each others 1st and that they love each other. I'd rather they had a relationship under the age of consent than he waited till he was legally able to and it was just a shag iyswim?

Pruners · 21/03/2009 09:42

Message withdrawn

aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 09:45

Agree, i will never understand parents who don't/won't talk about it. Like if it's not talked about then it's not happening.

I'm off to shower and get the dd's out dfor a walk to the park and drag ds2 out of bed.

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 21/03/2009 09:56

I am open about sex with dd1. She is five and knows what a condom looks like after finding one next to my bed and opening it to get 'the sweety inside'. She was very dissapointed.

She knows it is what daddy uses so he doesn't make anymore babies with mummy. She keeps hiding them now

She recently learned about sex too after "Do puppies come from eggs?" sparked a "When a boy dog meets a girl dog and they love each other very much............"

She is never having babies if that is where they come from apparently

I don't believe in lying to children and think that if they are old enough to ask the question they are old enough to know the answer, providing that it is explained in child appropriate language.

tattifer · 21/03/2009 16:29

agalch The same so called friend was horrified and said she would never allow that. I said that i didn't want then doing it in a bus stop etc and she replied that she would rather her dc did that and she would remain ignorant of the fact

and her dc ignorant of the facts no doubt - kids don't stand a chance with parents like that

OP posts:
aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 17:19

Tattifer yes thta was what i thought. Her dc (a boy and a girl) will never be able to approach her about anything i fear. poor things

I just think it's my job to do the hard bits as well as the good bits. She clearly doesn't. It's very much just do as i say and shut yer gob!!

tattifer · 21/03/2009 17:28

Good grief - ridiculous isn't it?

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Mummyfor3 · 21/03/2009 17:51

To talk to children about sex/their bodies when they are (almost) teenagers is far too late, IMO. By then they have all sorts of misinformation from their peers/magazines/wellmeaning adults spouting drivvel.

I answer DSs (aged 5 and 6) questions as they come up, they know correct names ie vagina and penis, although "nick names" are not frowned upon. When I was pregnanct with DS3 last year and we discussed a baby growing in mummy's tummy I was holding my breath for the question how the baby got there, but it never came. They understand the concept of big oak from small acorns grow, and at this stage did not require further information.

However, I agree with other posters, a lot of young people who have sex at a very young age are so caught up in a culture which sexualises everything: cropped tops, bras for little girls, anyone?? I have spoken to young people in Family Planning Clinics (so these are the ones who ARE actively seeking information) who just feel that sex is something "everybody does"; they do not fully understand that there is a choice, and that they do not HAVE to have sex to be somebody amongst their peers. It does have a lot to do with self esteem, and a certain feeling of self-worth that does not require the validation of being "loved" by somebody else.

I am all for more health/sex education in schools and I am shocked that a dissenting few should prevent a lesson for the vast majority to go ahead. Could those whose parents object not simple be excused from the lessons involved? Or, quite frankly, my own personal opinion is that those whose parents object, SHOULD attend sex ed as it would seem they will not be informed at home.
Yes, I admit, I miss a bit of paternalistic telling people what to do if it is in their best interest.

I have this week dealt with a 15 (fifteen) year old boy seeking treatment for erectile dysfunction (impotence) when with his 14 year old girlfriend. His equipment was working fine when on his own IYKWIM, and it did not occur to him that maybe, just maybe he was not ready for sexual intimacy with somebody else yet. It had been his best friend who told him he had to sleep with her as he would be a "wuss" if he didn't because they had been "going out" for 2 months and he "had not seen any action yet" .
I also dealt with a 15 year old girl who presented 28 weeks into her pregnancy who even when presented with fetal heart beat and positive pregnancy test denied that she could possibly be pregnant because she had not been aware that what she and her now ex-boyfriend had been doing is what makes babies. Her mother had apparently still been referring to "special cuddles" and she did not find her boyfriend's "cuddles" that "special". She was 15, FFS, surely she should have been told somewhere along the way about the connection between periods/making babies/intercourse etc etc.

So, yes, emphatic yes, to talking about bodies, sex and gardening (love the line, too, and gardening such an important life skill).

tattifer · 21/03/2009 17:59

mummyfor3 who just feel that sex is something "everybody does"; they do not fully understand that there is a choice, and that they do not HAVE to have sex to be somebody amongst their peers. It does have a lot to do with self esteem, and a certain feeling of self-worth that does not require the validation of being "loved" by somebody else.

Indeed, there's more to open communication about sex than the mere mechanics and practicalities. If our children know what sex is, what it means - all the whys and wherefors they would be so so much better informed and make decision based on information and choice not pressure.

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aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 17:59

Mummyfor3 god how awful for that boy of 14 And the pg young girl. I agree with you about having information when very young. I answered questions from the moment mine could talk and ask about babies and bodies etc.

I very much emphasised to ds1 (and have to the rest) that sex could be great but was wonderful with someone you respect and care for. He waited nearly a year before having a sexual relationship with his gf and they are very happy together. I have however told him that just because his lovely gf can stay over that doesn't give him the right to bring anyone else back if the relationship should end.

I would hate for any of my dc's to worry or be unsure about stuff like that.

duchesse · 21/03/2009 18:19

Mummyof3- I am genuinely intrigued to know how the 15 yr old had managed to avoid learning the facts. Does she go to school?

nooka · 21/03/2009 18:37

It's not that unusual apparently. I used to work alongside health promotion teams, and the stories that young people tell each other are very odd indeed. Things like using Mars bars wrappers as condoms, sex standing up avoiding pregnancy. All sorts of odd stuff. And this was when information was available, just clearly not taken in. I think that some of that is because if teenagers are given sex ed by their teachers or other authority figures they can either switch off (it's school, so boring) are too embarrassed to listen (a grown up talking about sex!) or think there is some sort of conspiracy going on (they are trying to stop us having fun). This is all a good argument for talking to kids before they are teenagers and full of attitude, and above all for parents being open and approachable and making sure that their children are confident in themselves and their bodies (to only have sex when they really want to and to enjoy it when they do).

I'm going to be interested to see my reactions when my children do get to 15/16 though, because I really would not want them to be in sexual relationships that young and I'm not sure that I would allow any staying over in the same room. My parents made me and dh (dp then) sleep in separate rooms even though we were living together at university! It seemed a bit silly, but they are very much no sex before marriage believers and I didn't really have a problem respecting that. dh's parents were totally the other way around, and that was fine too. Different when you are just visiting though.

Mummyfor3 · 21/03/2009 19:03

Duchesse, v long story about this girl and I cannot give salient facts because I do not want to identify her. But really V V peculiar upbringing, yes, she goes to local comprehensive, the baby was given up for adoption. I am not sure she would have been allowed to attend any sex ed classes. And anyway, she did not understand what her and her boyfriend were doing WAS sex.
Also, never underestimate the power of denial ...

aGalChangedHerName · 21/03/2009 20:03

Nooka i was a parent who thought that by educating/being open/talking to my dc taht they would wait till they were much older. Boy was i in for a shock

I would much rather ds1 and his gf had waited but when you are confronted with it...

If i'd said no to staying over then it would have been bus stops/friends houses etc. Not saying what we did was good but i feel it is better than the alternative

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