AIBU to be sad and shocked by this article?

[LittleDorrit]

Have just been reading this:

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/mar/18/child-poverty-labour-eradicate-promise

and I am shocked by the conditions this family is living in, but in particular how little/what sort of food they are able to afford.

It's not so much an AIBU issue, but just wondered whether others in similarly difficult circumstances think this is typical, or whether the mother could try to buy other types of food (e.g. rice, lentils, etc.) or perhaps be able to afford to spend a bigger proportion of her budget on food... £20 is very little.

Ok then she can iron for the lady down the road. Or do some dog walking, cash in hand. Snd she can take dd's with her.

I know SGM - I should be studying too - would it surprise you to know that I'm doing Introduction to Health and Social care with a view to going down the "social" side of things

(a decision made as I spend so much time arguing online about this stuff and getting so enraged about all of the types of issues surrounding this thread that I figured that when I return to work using my passion for it to actually try to do something for people such as louise (and/or refugees/aslyum seekers/ethnic minorities etc etc) would probably be a good idea)

how do we have same wrong information, i am in receipt of everything that she is and i know how hard it is but there is more that can be done for her to be living in a better financial position.

lol - and you think the lady down the road is going to be any better off that her??? She lives in a "sink" estate where the majority of people are in the same situation as her - except many of them grow marijuana to "make ends meet" or don't budget their money like she does)

So supposed these people down the road actually have any money to pay her cash in hand you're suggesting she should commit benefit fraud???

ezmi - you have wrong information because you think that she'll get help with childcare costs and WTC working under 16hrs a week.

You think that a 5yr old and 3yr old only cost a tiny bit more to feed than a 1yr old (trust me - they don't - they only eat more as they get older and you go and look in the cupboard for a snack in the evenings and find they've cleared it ).

i am an ethnic minority and in the poverty margin. but i am doing something to get me out of it - i am going to study mental health nursing and specialise in working with women from dv backgrounds and support then in returning to society as it were.
I just believe that louise could do more to help herself - go to sofa and get secondhand furniture, go to CAB to get help with utilities etc.

babysit then. No fraud being committed there.

ok FAQ she can get help with childcare now for her kids without working, she can apply to her training centre for nursery while she is studying. and i know that feeding two older children is more expensive but by that time the larger items a baby needs eg nappies formula will no longer be needed. and it is about setting boundaries regarding snacks, if it all there is then when it is finished that is it, no more!

her closest CAB's only offer advice on welfare (benefits) - which she's already receiving. Her next closest is near the city centre and would require a bus trip.

She's obviously had to start further "back" in her bettering herself process than you - as I presume you didn't have to go to college and learn how to use a computer and how to read and write half decently before you started your access course?

Where is she going to get this money to buy the 2nd hand furniture (presuming there is a place close to her).

How does she do babysitting? She's got no-one to look after her own children in the evenings!!!

She can take her own children babysitting. I do.

And I walk 5 miles into town just to go to Housing office. An hours walk! Plus shed get exercise and probs help her self esteem.

Ezmi - I am very glad that you manage well and wish you all the best in your studies: but a few things strike me from your post and probably go some way to explaining how you manage better than Louise

You must have a bank account to pay direct debits, which are often the cheapest way of getting utilities - the girl in the article has no current account and is still paying off debts to the bank,

You have a credit card so must have a better credit rating than louise - and I dont know how you use it but I bet in an emergency, its a better buffer than £10 in a jar

You have a computer and the internet allowing you to access services, benefits info without travelling, making appointments etc, and you are able shop online or at least look around for the best deals on larger purchases without comitting yourself to the local options

You know what you are entitled to with healthy start vouchers, milk vouchers etc. You sound informed, confident and able to argue your case - online here and I bet that helps in real life

Not to denigrate you at all - reading your shopping list I wish I was so organised but Louise seems to lack a few of your skills and advantages.

And would the CAB not be able to refund the bus fare to get to the city centre? I am sure that is an option. what about the health visitor - she would be able to support her application to an organisation to sofa and maybe even get free stuff.

no, i left school with all my gcse's, a have trained to be a geriatric nurse, have A levels in psychology sociology and business, and am now studying my access course. i come from a middle class family but now i am in the world on my own and happen to fit in this margin.

ok FAQ maybe all the job op that have been suggested you have found something about it that is unsuitable but her jobcentre would be able to support her in finding a job that suits her and her family - i know that it is a recession but there are still unskilled jobs available such as packing and working in a factory - yes there are my step father is a recruitment manager.

there is that extra help out there and assessable to her. She can go to nextsteps and reclaim busfares even to get the help.

PMSL @ "setting boundaries" with snacks - when your DS has eaten a good sized breakfast, polished his lunch off, then is still hungry when he gets in from school, so you feed him an apple, then a banana, then a packet of crisps, then a sandwich, and then an hour after that he eats a dinner bigger than you do, followed by desert (that's the 5yr old) and his older brother is even worse - then it's not a case of "setting boundaries" - it's a case of they're hungry so you feed them - only to find that there's not much left for yourself later if you fancy a snack.

Her youngest is still in nappies, formula - well that's only needed up to 12 months.

Trust me - you think that once nappies are used less and you're not buying formula they get cheaper - they really don't - they get more and more expensive as each year passes. You suddenly find that those trousers you bought for them last year are still being sold - but as they're gone up a size or two - so has the price.

yes, i know that i am in a better position than louise and i am at an advantage but than does not take away from the fact that the help is out there for louise. I am not trying to say that it is her 'fault' or anything like that because i know how hard it is to be at that point, i have rebuilt my life from nothing after living in a refuge and being relocated half way across the country. but i am fortunate to be able to help myself and have assess to the information out there.
Louise is not as lucky as me and i do feel sorry for her, i really do.

surely you mean CXC's - not GSCE's

and anyhow - there you go - you had the background to be able to find it SO much easier to better yourself. I came from a working class family, but they were hot on education, so I - like you got a decent on (CSYS's and Scottish Highers in my case) that put me a million miles ahead of Louise when I found myself on benefits.

Take away that good middle class (or working class in my case) background, and substitue for a life no different from the one she's living now. It puts a whole different light on the whole subject.

I am not trying to justify any of it or say that it is wrong, it is personal circumstance.

And i know that children do not get cheaper -my daughter gets more expensive by the day.

If that is the case with the food, like louise who has only £20 to spend you cant give them all of it in the first 2 days, you make it stretch - i do.

my daughter is no longer drinking formula, but she is still in nappies and i know how expensive that is.

why would i mean CXC's?

yes - I'd love to make my food stretch as much as it used to - but I'm not sending my boys to bed hungry (I may well go to bed hungry - but no way on this earth am I letting them do the same).

sorry - would have been GSCE's - it was 15yrs in Barbados not 16 - must have been a right royal PITA going from one education system to another just before sitting the GSCE's!

Yes i did CXC's in Barbados in 2003/2004 it is still CXC it has been since 1990 something.

FAQ - there is no way that your boys are hungry after eating all that! They are just used to being overfed so act accordingly. After eating 'a bigger dinner than you do followed by dessert' there is no way a child would be 'going to bed hungry' and to give them food after this will indulge their greed and tendency to overeat.

FAQ - at no time did i say that i did my exams in Barbados so props to you for knowing that, the next assumption is that i has come here to use and abuse the system but as you are probably aware i was born in the UK and lived in Barbados as expats.

1979 actually

anyhow, you still seem to be TOTALLY missing the point that all these things she "should" be doing and finding out about she almost certainly doesn't know about.

I (a fairly well educated person) didn't know until someone on MN told me that I could get a budgetting loan to help with my moving costs when I moved here.

No-one in RL told me, no-one at the job centre told me ANYTHING about any training or courses I could do and get help with at any of my visits there.

Other bits of help I've got since I've been on benefits I've found out from people that knew about them because they/someone they knew had got it - not one piece of help or advice came from a "professional".

If no-one else around you knows about these opportunities and help that is available, and the professionals aren't telling you then you're not going to know are you?

And there are now 10 applicants for each job advertised at the JSP centres - doesn't sound much, until you take into account that's averaged out among all the jobs they advertise - shift work, night work, work that requires certain qualifications and experience, needing to have own transport etc etc

Most people will be applying for the jobs that require none of those things, and fewer for the otherrs. That figures is also averaged out across the whole country - so areas with higher unemployment are going to have higher figures.

Factory work is all well and good - but it's shift work, usually with hours that just don't fit in with childcare (normal round her is 7-2, 2-10, 10-7)

Unemployment is expected to rise to 3 million by the end of next year, it's just hit the 2 million mark, 100,000 lost their jobs just in the last month.

"Competition" for the jobs that can be fitted around childcare is only going to get worse.

And if you're uneducated, it makes the odds against finding a job even higher stacked against you.

GG - you want to bet on that?

My DS1 and 2 have the biggest bloody appetites you wouldn't believe it.

Thankfully it would appear DS3 is taking after me with a much smaller appetite. Although he's only 21 months so I guess still time for that to change [eek]