to think that sometimes, there are children out there (and their parents) who really do need some form of discipline being forced into / onto them......

[psychomum5]

seriously angry right now, and actually have thoughts of violence.

9yr old boys in particular.

and one who lives in our cul-de-sac, who as much as I blame hom for the way he is treating my son, I actually want to commit the act of violence against his mother, as I see her every day, and see and hear the way she treats him, and so can quite understand who his role model is for the way he bullies my DS1.

sadly, as much as I would like to say that a good beating might cure him, it is exactly that beating (he gets from his mother......she hits him around the head and calls him a fucking twat a lot), that has made him like this, so what type of discipline now would work I have no idea.

and then I see another mother at the school gates, with another 9yr old (girl this time), who is bribing her daughter out of a tantrum where she is hitting her smaller sister, promising her a magnum from the shop f she hurries up.

what the hell is WRONG with some parents????

Just sad, innit? No child deserves to be called names like that.

YANBU .

One mum went in the classroom today grabbed her ds and walked out because the bell went and the teacher was trying to make sure everyone had a letter she then told the teacher he was her son and when the bell went she better make sure he is straight out in future.

The little boy than ran down the hill jumping in peoples hedges and kicking his sister his mother shouting at him to "stop it you little c*nt".

It sounds a nightmare some people just do not give a shit .

They don't know how to parent. That's a big problem. Maybe not well parented themselves. Maybe never had the, erm, let's say awareness, to take a good long look at themselves and examine their behaviours. Maybe their mates all behave like this and it's normal to them. Some people fall into parenthood without any real desire to do it, or any real understanding of the responsibility it brings.

it is so sad.

and we wonder why we have feral (sp?) teens now, with parenting like I witnessed today.

and it is not a rare occurance anymore either

hecates, you speak a lot of sense.

but then, I was never well parented, and it makes me even more determined to make a good job of it with my children.

Some people should NEVER become parents, just cause someone can have a baby does not mean they should.

I have seen people like this, and wondered why they did not just keep their pants on as they want the child they are hitting and cussing at about as much a dose of the clap

starlight, what do you mean??

do you mean like I assume, that you have not been taught to parent, but are doing a good job of it besides that becuase you have the ability to teach yourself (IYGWIM)?

and kimi, the problem is that many parents think that having children is easy, and babies are cute.

they seem to not realise that having sex and having babies lead to teaching social values to said childrenas they grow......

I don't know how to parent. It isn't like making a model aircraft, or putting up shelves. There aren't any instructions.

Sorry but I don't think anyone does. You use common sense and learn as you go along. And no number of books and courses is going to help unless you have the basics. Basics being empathy, patience, kindness and consideration. Being a good (or good enough) parent comes from being a good human being.

Unfinished people don't make good parents.

I had this thought myself of giving parenting lesson today. On Sunday we were out with friends, who said how well behaved our Ds is.
When we came home DH kisses me and said I'm so proud of him and you. Without you're self discipline, he wouldn't be disciplined. What he meant was well taught (which I think the word disciplined means in ancient Greek!) I'm with him for longer but we don't swear, bribe and only tap our boy. But there has always been some awful parenting and to tell you the truth I'm not perfect.

orm, no, there are no absolute manuals on being a parent, but there are enough books out there to help you find your way if you so choose.

or, just use common decency, and treat your children (and others), how you would wish to be treated yourself, as I am damn sure that that one mother I am angry with right now would not like being hit around the head and being called a twat would she!!!

Oh I quite agree that she was out of order. And in my post I said more or less what you did that about common decency.

I was replying to a post further down about 'people not knowing how to parent'. I don't think there are rules.

Totally agree psychomum5. I think I have taught my son manners before the alphabet. I haven't taught him 'stranger danger' yet. As he is rarely out of an adult sight. I have taught him if he is lost to speak to someone is a uniform be it a traffic warden or a shop assistant. I don't want him to be rude to strangers.

I always remember talking to someone at nursery when I was pregnant with DD3 she was saying how she had kept going until she "got her boy" (3DDs then a DS).

Fast forward to her standing at corner off nursery, her DS having major tantrum (and I know they all do) but he was lying in the pavement mid tantrum and she was lifting him by the reins to smack the living daylights out of him.

I don't know how to parent. I fell into being a mum too. Sometimes I get it wrong. Today being a good example, pissed off with dp and took it out on ds's by generally shouting and being witch like. I feel totally overwhelmed, stressed and unsupported as a working mum at the moment.

However, even though I'm not supermum I know that smacking a little boy around the head and calling him a f'ing c**t is just so plainly wrong. I know that would make him feel bad. I know that this would only serve to disrespect himself and others. Anyone who does this know's it too, but something is so wrong in their life/background/education that they see it as acceptable or they don't know or want to change it. It would be utopia if everyone had the same set of skills, knowledge and values when entering parenthood but they don't. You can wish it to change, but you can't make it.

ah Orm, ok, gotcha

starbear, I was the same with mine as they grew. manners taught from the moment they could 'ask' for anything, and I led (and still do I hope) by example.

of course, I am in no way perfect, and my children are also in no way perfect, but they do know how to behave and how not to.

sadly for my DS1 tho, I fear he is being pushed towards behaving badly a he is getting so angry with these lads who are bullying him, and it is hard trying to talk to him about how to try and walk away and not react. especially when I am raging and wanting to react badly myself

you don't need a rule book to know that you have a person who is totally reliant on you, and that you owe them! and to apply some common sense!

It's not about never making mistakes - ha! I could write a book on my mistakes! it's about trying, about working to meet the needs of your children, about learning from the mistakes that you do make and trying to do the right thing (taking time to think what the right thing actually might be!). understanding what the role of a parent actually is and to try to be that.

come on, you know it is!

I think this is why I took the decission when DD was borm I would never raise a hand to them.
I can see how it easily spirals into the only form of discilpline and if you don't know any better it becomes normal.
I sat watching a que in a shop once and a woman had 4 children with her and she'd belted each and everyone of them around the head before she was served her cigarettes.
I know GP's often gets for being insensitive asking if babies were planned at booking appointments but you do wonder whether people ought to be made to think a bit more carefully about their own capability of coping with 4 children.
I also think (dons flak jacket) that no benefit at all should be paid for the third child, as a mother of three I would have gone ahead anyway but if it made one person who was stretching themselves physically, mentally and finacially stop and think then it would be worthwhile and would put a stop to the karen matthews types who see their kids as a cash cow.

psychomum5 Oh! this is where DH and myself might get it a bit wrong. If the day comes (he's 4 now) he can defend himself by hitting back. If he then gets detention he'll have to go without a word. He will also be getting judo lessons. Maybe it will help him with self-esteem and he can decide to fight or walk away in the knowledge he can sort it out. What does everyone else think?
This is not yet a problem in our family and maybe it needs a little fine tuning

oooh sorrento, dangerous ground there with the child benefit statement, but I completely get that statement.

hecate, someone once said to be that to be a bad parent was easy, it is being a good parent that is the hard job.

so so true

The thing is there's enough bloody help out there, when I moved house i said to my HV i'd like to meet other mums and she enrolled me on a sure start parenting course not exactly what i had in mind but there were plenty of mums and dads there, enjoying the free tea and coffee and childcare

oh starbear, I will never be angry with him for defending himself, but I want him to learn when is it defence (and therefore justified), rather than just reacting, and reacting badly.

at the moment what is going on is name calling and threats rather than anything physical, and I am fretting that it will be my son who throws the first punch, and so get into trouble.

"as much as I would like to say that a good beating might cure him"

Can't agree with that sentiment...

I think the next time you see her call him names, you should intervene. It's emotional abuse, plain and simple. Of course, it'll be a shitstorm, but you clearly feel strongly enough about it to make harsh judgements so put your money where you mouth is. Adults who don't intervene when they see a kid being abused are complicit IMO.

"who is bribing her daughter out of a tantrum where she is hitting her smaller sister, promising her a magnum from the shop f she hurries up"

Obviously positively reinforcing bad behaviour like that is counter-producitve at best. That said, I've been guilty of bribing my DD in a tight spot. I'm not proud of it, and I would not have done it in the situation you described, but I don't think I'm a bad parent.