to think that sometimes, there are children out there (and their parents) who really do need some form of discipline being forced into / onto them......

[psychomum5]

seriously angry right now, and actually have thoughts of violence.

9yr old boys in particular.

and one who lives in our cul-de-sac, who as much as I blame hom for the way he is treating my son, I actually want to commit the act of violence against his mother, as I see her every day, and see and hear the way she treats him, and so can quite understand who his role model is for the way he bullies my DS1.

sadly, as much as I would like to say that a good beating might cure him, it is exactly that beating (he gets from his mother......she hits him around the head and calls him a fucking twat a lot), that has made him like this, so what type of discipline now would work I have no idea.

and then I see another mother at the school gates, with another 9yr old (girl this time), who is bribing her daughter out of a tantrum where she is hitting her smaller sister, promising her a magnum from the shop f she hurries up.

what the hell is WRONG with some parents????

I think some people need to be encouraged to go to parenting classes. If their parents treated them like that, when they were young, they probably haven't had a good role model.

Sorrento, i kind of oddly agree with the third child statement.

I know some families who could do with introducing discipline.

sweetkitty - that's one of the saddest things I've ever read on MN how awful.

dizietsma.......I have said something. she lives in my cul-de-sac as I have said.

the way she was towards him and me after si something I never want to go thru again!!

she has also had SS go round (she has 3 other sons).............they either do not think her parenting bad enough (which would say a lot about about how bad others must be) or the resources are not there to help her.

as for my 'beating him' statement.....it is something I am against, and would never use it myself, but sometimes there have been times when I think a taste of your own medicine might do a lot of good!

There's a mum in DS's class that last year when they were in Reception (so only 4/5 yrs old) said of her child:

"I don't care how often he hits kids on the playground as long as he works in class and gets good grades"

I told DS to ignore this child and walk away when he started to bully him; I am going to get him self defence lessons when I get my next amount of student loan because I believe it's going to be necessary to have at some time in his life.

DS was naughty at school the other day and I found out at collection time - I made him apologise to the teacher... a bit different from the "oh well, as long as he gets good grades" attitude.

I don't get why some parents on our playground expend so much energy chasing their children around to leave at collecting time - I'd never do it! I just say "ok then, see you later" and walk off....! (but I'm mean like that)

there are some areas where parenting like this is an absolute culture - its a way of life - its the norm - you do it, your neighbours do it, your parents did it - theres nothing wrong with it.

to change the culture, to reinforce a new norm - there should be parenting classes for all. this should be dependant on getting CB

i also agree with the third child statement.

Now I don't agree with making CB dependant on attending parenting classes because that would mean basically the state instructing you how to parent and we all know what that leads to if the state policy at the time is just plain wrong, for example in the 60's would we all have liked to be taught how to apply the slipper just in the right part of the leg with so much force so we can have maxim impact ? To have to sit and watch that just to get the Cb, they could keep it.
Equally I don't want some naby pamby teaching me how to negotiate with a 2 year old kicking me in the shin.

psychomum5 Sweatheart, I'm not yet in your shoes but I think he might understand that if he gets into trouble for hitting them, he can speak to you and you'll always keep your ears and heart open for him. It might be that after being pushed around for so long he might decide to over react. I think you'll have to wait for that moment and deal with what you have in front of you and not predict the future.
My sister did not like the kids on her estate, they would steal from other kids and generally behave badly. She found it difficult to deal with.
The only solution she found was to take them out ALL day in the holiday and as much as possible at the weekends. It came in handy that she had a spinster sister (me) a good fun mum, and support from her church.
As the maiden aunt I took them everywhere and they would stay with me or Mum. It still makes me sad as my younger nephew was robbed as he got older and beyond going out with aunty. The boys are 21yrs and 19 yrs now and doing well. The estate has changed for the better, with mainly owner occupiers.

I think the trouble is it continues and becomes a cycle of parenting/breeding. As the toddlers get older they become more difficult, hence 8/9 year olds and teenagers out till all hours as parents just want them out the house! I have taught a number of teen mums and have always thought what good mums they are when their babies first arrive, but when they turn into demanding toddlers screaming banshee mum apperars. So they have anpther baby to replace demanding toddler! I asked one of these girls how many children she wanted, she had two by the age of 17, and she said I just love having babies! I want loads, she seemd to not think through the reality of 3 or 4 small children, and then teenagers! But she was a irresponsible person who didn't think a lot through so 'family planning' doesn't seem to enter the heads of these people!!

I teach kids who's parents have never attended a parents evening since they started school, have no interest when invited to school events and when asked to support with behavioural issues will shrug their shoulders and admit defeat by saying 'we can't do anything with him/her'. I feel most of it stems from lazy irresponsible and selfish parenting and as custardo said it is the norm for so many families, just watch jeremy Kyle

custardo I don't think that everyone should have parenting classes. It would be too expensive and I think I'll take on a teachers pet role and that wouldn't be helpful.
I also differ in my parenting style and might clash with other good parents over fruit shoots & fresh strawberries V apple juice and chocolate biscuits. Not helpful to either.

Must enforce self-discipline now and get off MN.

You see I really don't think that 'parenting' classes are the way forward. What people need is to know how to relate to all other people properly and constructively, how to be part of a community (family), how to value other people. In short how to be a good humam being. Teaching a parent how to parent is only a tiny part of the whole picture. OK, I can accept that maybe it's a stop gap measure for those who have lost that basic skill and who need to learn how not pass dysfunctionality on to another generation. But it isn't and shouldn't be needed in a properly functioning society.

OrmIrian Isn't that Utopia. If you know of a place on this planet that really is like that, please let everyone else into the secret. Sadly, we have to teach our children to cope with the reality around us. Again sadly, the dysfunctional will help us explain to our children why it's important to work hard at school. For them earn a good living so, they can afford to move when their environment doesn't suit them. Education and wealth is freedom. But tough times can be of benefit to our character. i,e make or break us.

Tea break over must dash!

One of the things I've realised over the last few years is that a lot of what many would call bad parenting - the day to day cruelties that result from dysfunctional chaotic lifestyles seems to be merely a reaction to the circumstances that those "bad parents" think of as normal.

We bring our children up (and are ourselves brought up) with a set of (social) skills for a functioning community. But there are many others who are bringing their kids up with a set of (survival) skills needed to thrive and survive in their dysfunctional communities.

If you're try to use compromise and discussion and fari play in the wrong part of town you'll get hammered. Yes, probably by the kids because that's what they've learnt (and been taught - not always the same) works. Want to be respected in the rough part of the estate? Don't say please and don't stay sober past the age of 9.

At least mum in playground actually gave a toss about her child's education - with aspirations like who knows where they'll end up At least she was actually in the playground!

Re the neighborhood boy - can you try and make a friend of him... when he misbehaves you can tell him that you don't allow that kind of behaviour.

I find that sometimes works, however it would depnd on the severity of his behaviour.
Good luck

I like stairlights point abotu the difference between knowing how NOT to parent. I do not have the answers to how to be a good parent and DS1 tests me to the limit at times - but I do know absolutley that I would never want to hit him and call him a twat - in fact I wouldn't want to swear at my child AT ALL!!!

So yes ok I have no idea how to be a good parent - but I damn well know how not to be an awful one! It should be illegal in england to smack children same as it is in scotland - that'd sort alot of it out IMHO

tattifer - I think that's what I mean. Dysfucntional parenting is a response to dysfunctional communities, not a standalone problem.

sorrento I can't believe you said that!!!

No way should people be penalised for larger families - thats why teachers are getting made redundant- the birth rate is dropping dramatically! What are we? China?!!

If you said something about large numbers of non brits having 5 kids and living off benefits might be different.....

purpleduck........tried making a friend of this boy. I think this is where the bullying has come in tho as I did try to tell him that in my house we don;t use bad language, spit, hit, puch etc etc.

he told me to "fuck off then" and walked out.

he was 5 then.

at that point I pulled my children out of the local school (and therefore out of the school this boy was attending), and sent mine to a school further away but with better values (the reasons for the pulling out were to do with my DD2).

shame of it is that the local school was closed down for being put into special measures and not improving, and now this boy is back at the school with my son.

and so is bullying him!!

The problem is nomoreamover is that we cannot discriminate against people who are non british and we cannot know who will spend their lives on benefits and who will be good parents.
So we have to make assumptions that most people can cope financially, emotionally and physically with 2 children. For most parents three is a step too far, you have to be bloody good to cope with three (I should know ).
We are not China, 1 child rule would be following their example.
As for teachers loosing their jobs, that is happening because of all the pen pushers in the civil service performing non jobs and being paid ridiculous amounts of money for it, wasting resources. If there is competition for teaching jobs then maybe some of the showers of shite i've come accross over the past 4 years will be pushed out of the profession and that can only be a good thing.

That SS haven't helped these kids in some way by putting mother on a parenting course or something.. not that it would probably make a difference

Hitting round the head is assault
Swearing at a child in the way she does is emotional abuse

Disgusting.

Morning!

orm indeed, the trouble is the word dysfunctional doesn't apply if the skills you learn are entirely appropriate to the community you live in. They're only dysfunctional when seen from the outside. If you're a cannibal, how shockingly inappropriate and undisciplined it must be to think of people who don't eat meat.

Without getting my head shot off, dare I mention the words nature v nurture...? (runs for cover)

Just to add (too early for this really!) that whether the problem is stand alone or not is a moot point if the "dysfunctional" parents don't see their "dysfunctional" parenting as a problem because in their "dysfunctional" communities its completely normal and therefore neither dysfunctional or a problem. It's the rest of us who have the problem!