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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ban Home Ed dad from toddler group?

40 replies

smallorange · 16/03/2009 20:24

Have a dilemma - a father has starting coming to toddlers with his two daughters - one is around 2 which is fine but the other is 6 years old.

We are not insured for a six-year-old. He is home educating the older one so seems to let the toddler run around while he does some work with the older one.

I don't mind, but am concerned about the insurance aspect. Also older daughter almost pulled over the climbing frame on to toddlers as she is too heavy for it.

So should I just have a quiet word and say, look I don't mind but you are going to have to keep a close eye on her?

Or should I be a jobsworth about it and tell him we are not insured so older one can't come?

OP posts:
Thunderduck · 16/03/2009 20:25

I'd have a word with him first.

katz · 16/03/2009 20:26

i'd just explain that its a toddler group and the upper age limit is 5, therefore his daughter is too old to attend.

traceybath · 16/03/2009 20:27

I'd just explain the situation to him - am guessing she's ok to be in the room but just not to play on the equipment??

Am sure he'll understand that you can't knowingly invalidate your insurance and its not personal.

Mung · 16/03/2009 20:27

Have a word with him. If he understands about the insurance issue then he might explain the situation to his DD and she can sit and do work with him. Surely if he takes full responsability for her then it is ok?

kitbit · 16/03/2009 20:27

I hate to say it, but I think you're going to have to be strict on this one. She isn't insured, that's it. There's no woolly area there and if she pulls over a frame with smaller kids on it, you have no liability insurance. And if other families realise that they may also stop coming as they won't want to be in a difficult legal position should anything ever happen.

AMumInScotland · 16/03/2009 20:27

Explain politely that you're not insured for older ones, so she's not able to come. If he was someone who was going to keep a close eye on her, he would have done that already. If you say that, and it doesn't work out, you'll find it much harder to be tough on him later.

harpsichordcarrier · 16/03/2009 20:29

I am a bit that you are not insured. not insured for what, exactly?

Ponders · 16/03/2009 20:30

Our toddler group used to encourage us to bring older siblings in the school holidays - nobody ever mentioned insurance - is this standard?

Original poster
smallorange · 16/03/2009 20:31

Yes, I'm troubled about the insurance aspect as there have been accidents over the years, usually when bigger kids bash into smaller ones.

Tracybath I didn't think of that - I think I'll see if he can sit and work with his daughter but not allow her on equipment etc

I think he will find this tough though as he will have to keep seeing to the toddler.

OP posts:
DorisIsAPinkDragon · 16/03/2009 20:32

At our toddler group we have a cut off age of 3. It is well publicised and adhered to.

I would suggest a quiet word with the dad, then a general letter to reiterate the situation to other parents.

harpsichordcarrier · 16/03/2009 20:33

does your insurance policy specify only children up to the age of five?
really?

Original poster
smallorange · 16/03/2009 20:34

You can get insureance for school age children but it costs alot more. Ours is around £60 for the year because it is for under-fives.

TBH we have turned a blind eye in the past when people have been caught out by unexpected school closures etc and wanted to bring the older one as a one-off.

OP posts:
mumzy · 16/03/2009 21:12

I don't think you YABU firstly you are only insured for under 5's and if he's concentrating on the older child is he supervising the younger one properly. We had a Home ed mum who use to bring her 6 year old son to the toddler group and in the end it was plain odd as the activities bored him and he could'nt really socialise with the toddlers. All our local toddler groups specify for under 5's only ,as there had been too may incidents of boisterous behaviour from the older childen and everyone adhere's to it

islandofsodor · 16/03/2009 21:20

Is it really the case that you can't allow an older child to set foot through the door. I assume you have public liability insurance for the adults, does that specifically cover children not taking part in the activities.

At the toddler group I used to attend we regurlaly had older siblings come if there was an INSET day etc.

I would be really if I was that Dad though I do see that it isn't your fault personally.

When dd was 5 I had to take her to Tumble Tots as her school broke up early. She was absolytely fine sitting on a chair on a corner with a book or game whilst ds and I did the circuit. I understood that as she wasn't a member she wasn't insured to take part, surely it is the same thing.

ChippingIn · 16/03/2009 23:52

You should have a word with him and not be a jobsworth!!

Who knows what their life-story is (maybe you do??), it could be really sad. What if this is the only chance they have to get out of the house and meet with other people....

Just tell him your insurance doesn't cover his eldest child so she needs to bring things to amuse herself while he minds the smaller one.

Twinklemegan · 16/03/2009 23:59

If you're not insured for over 5's, what happens if a parent trips over a toy and breaks their ankle?

Since when did P&T groups stop being nice places for parents to get together and start being so bureaucratic and exclusive? This is why I don't bother with them tbh.

It would be ridiculous to tell him not to bring her. Just explain that she's too old to old to play with the equipment and leave it at that. She might enjoy helping with snacks etc. (assuming food is allowed?)

solidgoldbrass · 17/03/2009 00:05

Our toddler group is always overrun with older siblings during school holidays, with no problems (and a hefty 4-year-old can do a fair bit of damage anyway). Though it would not be unreasonable for you to say to him that his elder DD is too big to use some of the equipment, if she is.

helena99 · 17/03/2009 00:15

Be nice to him! It must be hard enough for a man at M&T without someone going all jobsworth on him (he might think that it was a sneaky way to get rid of him).
Let him and the toddler continue, if he promises that the 6 yo will sit quietly with her own work or toys.

cory · 17/03/2009 07:30

Tell him she can't use the equipment- then her case should be no different from that of the adults in the room. As for not being able to supervise the younger child properly if he is paying attention to the older, surely people bring twins or two under-fives to toddler group and cope.

pavlovthecat · 17/03/2009 07:33

Tell him very clearly about the insurance and explain she can come in, in the same way as he is allowed in, but cannot use the equipment. You can advise him that any use of the equipment may result in her not being able to come along in the future.

mm22bys · 17/03/2009 07:47

Really tricky situation, I feel for them all.

I agree with whoever posted to say you don't their full story, I would have thought that this situation with home eders and younger children would not be uncommon.

It sounds like it could be a rare social "event" for the 6 year old, in which case is she going to be happy sitting in the corner reading a book (even if the other kids are much younger...), and it's no good for them all to be at home just because the older one isn't at school.

TotalChaos · 17/03/2009 07:52

YABU to ban him. Just tell him you don't want her using the slides/climbing frames etc.

nooka · 17/03/2009 08:01

I would check with the insurers precisely what is and isn't allowed, so you know if it is a problem only if she is playing with equipment, or if she is sitting quietly by her dad. You probably need that clarity for the occasional day parent as well. Then explain to the dad exactly what the rules are. Your responsibility is primarily to the toddlers, not to this parent, whatever his circumstances, because if something did happen you would probably be in an indefensible position.

Bubbaluv · 17/03/2009 08:07

So your insurance covers toddlers and adults but no one in between? Are you sure?
If so you really need to explain the situation to him.

FrannyandZooey · 17/03/2009 08:07

well it would be a kindness imo to let him continue to come
i have a home ed 5 yo and a baby and i have not managed to go to any baby groups as i presume they will not welcome my 5 yo
which is slightly sad all round - if i found a group where we were welcome i would be very happy indeed