to turn down lunch invite because friend has a coldsore & I have a young baby?

[lowrib]

Friends have invited me for Sunday lunch at their house, but one of them has a coldsore.

I didn't realise that the herpes virus can actually kill a baby until the sad news recently about the baby who died because their mum kissed them with a coldsore.

I've said I'm not going with my 12 week old. They think I'm being hilariously PFB and over protective. They pointed out that the herpes virus isn't airborn, and they have promised not to kiss the baby.

I think it's best to err on the side of caution, when if you get it wrong the consequences could be so dire.

AIBU?

TIA

sw1.

That is how it happened in teh public case.

The immune response to a first herpes infection is massive for most (although some are worse than others) - whether it is in utero or not, whether you are 12wks, 12years or 112 years.

I think that in a child of 12weeks it is far less likely to be fatal - but as I said I can quite easily see an infected child being admitted to hospital - from dehydration as a complication if nothing else. Perosnally my recomendations have been based on not wanting the baby to get a primary infection full stop - rather than the potential (or not) fatality of it.

I don't think a baby gains immunity before birth to HSV...as I don't think they are actually exposed to it as it resides in teh nervous and doesn't circulate. If you are bf I guess it may have some Antibodies.

Some people in the wider world are saying that a newborn shouldn't be kissed by anyone. Personally I think that is too extreme - a family needs to bond with their baby. But I would not allow someone with an active coldsore to kiss anyone - let alone a small baby. Hands should also be washed as that is actually a reasonable common route of transfer *(apparently).

It is also worth noting that with an active shedding sore the virus can be transferred in an airborne manner. These are the 2 risks in teh case outline by teh OP.

I would prefer my newborn not to be kissed by anyone who gets coldsores, whether they have one or not - but that would include my mum so don't think it's likely
I don't think the OP is being PFBish. If her friends really don't get why she's the slightest bit worried, if they think she's massively overreacting, then maybe one little kiss won't hurt. Or something like that. My mum still saw DS when she had an active coldsore but she made a point of telling me that she wouldn't kiss him, would wash her hands after touching her cold sore and would use a separate hand towel. She was taking it seriously and that was fine. If someone had laughed at my concerns, then I'd be a bit dubious as well.

TBH though I can 100% see why many people are saying the OP has been unreasonable.

I would have probably said the same 18m ago - even after the headlines.

Back then I would have thought a coldsore is a coldsore. Perferable not to have them but whats the harm? trust me if you have ever cared for someone with a primary herpes infection. That is what changes you mind.

The primary symptoms (in anyone) are (althoug not everyone is affected - a primary infection can go unnoticed):

1. Extreme temperature - often 39+
2. Very swollen glands in neck and abdomen. Those in the abdomen can cause extreme pain such that it can be mistaken for appendicitis
3. Multiple ulcers and lesions in and around hte mouth. DD3 hade 20+ ulcers in her mouth. DTD1 had around 12-15.
4. Refusal to eat and drink because of the ulcers - which can lead to a very real risk of dehydration in a baby/toddler
5. General lethargy, flu like syptoms, can be mistaken for glandular fever in adults
6. Complications can arise if the sufferer also has excema

As you can see - this is NOT about giving a baby a coldsore. This is about a full body infection.

Added to that there are the long term effects. The baby will suffer coldsores for the rest of their lives. This isn't the end of the world, and they will probably pick it up at some point - but the later the better. My DTD1 also suffers from Mesenteric Adenitis EVERY SINGLE TIME she has a cold (and other infections). This is basically #2 above - severe pain in the abdomen. This is agony for her - and for some children the pain from mesenteric adenitis can only be controlled with Morphine as an inpatient.

What I am trying to say is that the potential effects are severe. They are easily avoidable. Why wouldn't you?

SMS, a quick Q as you seem quite knowledgeeable about this. My MIL has herpes simplex nfection in her eye. She uses zovirax eye drops as a preventative measure on a daily basis, but has, like any other herpes virus sufferer, occasional flare ups, and in fact it's active at the minute. Since reading that article, it has worried me a bit where the DC are concerned but thought I was maybe overreacting a bit.

I'm a bit unsure of how I can tell her not to get close to her own grandchildren though as she already thinks I'm a fruitloop.

DS1 gets cold sores and was very ill when he had his first infection of it when he was 2 years old (coincidentally when on holiday with his grandparents ). Is it likely that he caught the infection from her?

SMS that sounds horrible. I didn't actually realise they were that serious.

SPB, my DS had about ten lesions in his mouth and several huge scabs around his mouth. he only had fluids for about a week as he just couldn't eat. I had no idea how serious it could be though.

SPB - as I say NOT all primary infections are that serious. I think adults can get away with it more than children though. And they are mush worse if immunocompromised or have a developing immune system. I was only recounting my experiences. DD3 was approx 15m when she had her primary infection. DTD1 was 6/7. I should also say that it is only the first infection that is extreme. after that it is "just" a coldsore.

Yes I would say so Daisy.

KerryMum (who has even more extreme opinions and "rules" for want of a better word) than me showed evidence that in (very very very) rare instance the virus can shed without an ative lesion - although I don't know much about ocular herpes.

It is difficult on how to deal with your MIL though - you have a younger DC don't you? it is a tough one....I would be blunt in teh event of an active lesion...they only last a few days. I would worry less about a dormant virus - as I said before you have to draw the line.

OP - I wouldn't go. PFB ish or not, it's Sunday lunch. Better safe than sorry and all that.

DD3 was teething at the time - so the virus seemed to attack the sites where her teeth were erupting.

That's the other thing LoW...if it was a wedding or something - I would probably have a slightly different opinion...but Sunday lunch can be done next week.

Unfortunately I'm a bit stuck with MIL and her active lesion at the minute as I've just had an operation and need her help. She tends not to get too close to the DC when her eye is bad though.

Of course - I saw your thread this morning.

Does she wear glasses? (makes randon assumption that Daisy's mother is old and therefore wears glasses) that will act as a bit of a barrier.

she does for reading but is too vain to wear them all the time!!!

and tis MIL; I'd have no qualms about telling my mum to back off, but inlaws are a different story

StealthPolarBear "If her friends really don't get why she's the slightest bit worried, if they think she's massively overreacting, then maybe one little kiss won't hurt"

That's exactly it. As they don't take me seriously on this I don't trust them not to touch my DS just a little a bit! And this is what happened...

In the end had a nice time in the park instead. My friends weren't offended, just think I've gone mad. But then another friend of mine unexpectedly needed a lift home with her son to the herpes house, I took her back to the house, I reasoned we wouldn't be there long, and they definitely knew my concerns, so they should keep their distance and all should be fine. But do you know what the wife of Mr Herpes kissed his hand! After all that .

I'm sure he'll be fine. But even though she's a good friend (and he didn't mean to, she just forgot herself) not being able to trust people on this kind of thing unsettles me. I learnt for next time simply saying "I'm not going" on the phone was MUCH easier than being there and saying "please don't touch my baby" to Mr Herpes and wife every time she forgot - it makes me sound really arsey!!

SlightlyMadScotland thanks for the info. I can now explain a little better to my friends so they know I've not gone totally round the bend!

I meant she didn't mean to.

Oh dear, I do hope I'm making some kind of sense! Time for bed I think.

Just wanted to add to this thread, A friend of mine had a beautiful baby daughter and she had a coldsore and kissed her baby girl and passed the virus on she had no idea it could happen and never heard of it before, sadly her baby died and she tortures herself every day for it since.
Yes to other people you may sound pfb and over the top a little but you better off being like that than my friend who lost her little girl.

chikaboom that's really sad, I'm really sorry for your friend. Thanks for letting me know. I hope you don't mind me asking but do you know how old her baby was?

Just to add - and I'd be interested for a dr's opinion on this - one of my colleague's sons aged 1yo had a big seizure one day, and the thing the doctors kept asking was whether or not he'd had coldsores. Can it affect the brain in some way?

(Little boy was fine by the way, despite having a completely unexplained fit that lastest an hour )

newborn around 2 weeks old.

Yes and with a new baby you have to do what feels right sometimes. However for the next time this problem comes up, remember that at 3 months your baby daughter still has maternal antibodies on board which would be expected to moderate considerably an HSV-1 infection she encountered.

At 15 months though, the maternal antibodies are pretty much gone so an infection then might be more severe; however you should remember that most HSV-1 primary infections in young children are asymptomatic.

I do think it's unnecesarily alarmist for others in this thread to say things like "catching herpes will almost certainly hospitalise your DD". And spurious 3 month boundaries for risk assessments would seem to have little relevance outside personal preference; however much they are based on really difficult experiences.

I wouldn't have met them either but I probably would have made up a different excuse!

Sorry but I feel your being ridiculous. Have you taken your baby out during the pandemic? Covid was killing thousands and babies tend not to have immunity to anything. So long as this person thoroughly cleans hands before touching your baby or refrains from touching the child then you have nothing to worry about. You cannot wrap a child in cotton wool all their life they will get infections and all sorts of illnesses. That's part of life and part of building an immune system.

The baby in this thread is now 12! Always good to check the date @FortniteBoysMum