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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want to cover someone else's rent this month?

68 replies

Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 16:42

Genuinely interested to see if AIBU but mainly I just want to rant!

Friend and I co-own a flat in London which we bought several years ago and used to share. Since then, I have met and married DH and had DD and she has met her DP. We moved 200 miles away when I was pregnant with DD and friend's DP moved in. He is theoretically renting my room, which pays off my share of the mortgage, but obviously shares her room and they keep my old room as a spare.

He has just been made redundant so has signed on for housing benefit to cover his share of the rent. He's just emailed to say that it will take a few weeks to go through, so he won't be able to pay rent this month and could I cover it. I am really really really annoyed. Surely if you can't cover your rent, that's your problem, not your landlord's?

I am still on maternity leave and what I get in SMP doesn't cover it. I could ask DH, who has savings, but I don't think this is up to us, is it? My friend is earning around double what DH and I currently have to live on, so I don't understand why her DP hasn't asked her - but all that aside, isn't it his problem not mine? Or is it my mortgage so my responsbility?

OP posts:

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 13/03/2009 20:20

I meant that the OP keeps her hands clean as she has signed an agreement saying she is his landlord. She is operating as if she does not know they are a couple which is what she has to do in order to sign the form as his landlord.

He is the one who may have lied, the OP can only keep her hands clean by keeping up the supposition that she is his landlord.

Obviously morally him and the girlfriend are dodgy as feck.

I know that the benefits office treat them as a couple but only responding to the OP's position. Unless she takes back that she is his landlord she is stuck with carrying out the fib.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 13/03/2009 20:35

If you live with someone as a couple they take both incomes into account when deciding whether you are entitled to benefits. If there are two bedrooms maybe he has lied to housing benefit and said he is lodging with his partner and paying her rent, if so, he will get HB. Re your first question - no of course it's not your responsibility. My HB was very late this month and I had to borrow money from my brother to pay my rent and pay it back when it was backdated. If I had called my landlord suggesting I pay the rent late he would have tiold me to take a flying jump. He has a mortgage too and I committed to pay his rent on time so he can pay his mortgage on tilme. His responsibility, not yours.

Original poster

Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 20:35

But I am his landlord, aren't I? He's renting my room and paying me rent.

OP posts:

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 13/03/2009 20:44

exactly. He has signed an agreement saying he will pay you rent on a certain day and it is his responsibility to do so, by whatever means. I had a big financial mess at the end of jan and bills were late but the rent was the most important thing - because the landlord is a friend of a friend and I didn't want to leave him in the poo.

lalalonglegs · 13/03/2009 20:44

But it doesn't matter who the landlord is, the fact is that if the HB officers find out that he is living with his girlfriend, they're not going to buy the line that he stays in the spare room and he won't qualify for HB - they will want what they paid back. Further, if they find out you knew about the arrangement, then they could prosecute you for fraud as well - and it wouldn't be too difficult as your name and your friend's will be on the deeds. I agree that it sucks that anyone in a relationship is expected to pay for their partner if s/he becomes unemployed but that's the way it is.

JazzHands · 13/03/2009 20:52

Anglepoise you are his landlord. There is a tenancy agreement in place and he pays you rent. As far as you are concerned he is renting your room in the house. Where he actually sleeps is between the couple and the HB people. You can't be expected to know the ins and outs of people's relationships when you are living miles away.

I still don't think they could do you as you haven't lied about anything, and you don't even know whether he has or not. He may well have told them the truth. How can you be held liable for fraud if you don't know anything about it?

If he told you that he had lied in order to claim housing benefit then you would be obliged to report him as you would then know that he was comitting fraud.

At the moment it is just guessing based on no evidence at all.

Quattrocento · 13/03/2009 20:56

Sounds like you are being conned into (a) losing rent and (b) conniving at housing benefit fraud

Sorrento · 13/03/2009 21:05

Kat is spot on, he has applied as a single person who is in a serious relationship, so they need to either "spilt up" because she doesn't want to have to support him financially and they do need to have evidence ie entirely seperate finances or she needs to cover his rent.
I don't think there's any law against bonking your flat mate, at least I hope there isn't

Portofino · 13/03/2009 21:13

Surely you are responsible for the mortgage being paid, whatever he does about his rent? To me, it would appear that your friend needs to cover hi rather than you!

solidgoldbrass · 13/03/2009 21:24

Tell him you can't cover it (if you can't, bearing in mind that if he gets his HB he will be able to pay you back within about 5 weeks). Ask him if his GF can't cover it. If she can;t, then it becomes her job to contact the mortgage company and tell them they will only have some of the mortgage this month. If you/they have previously been good regular payers, the mortgage company will not shit on your heads but will wait for the missing money.

lou031205 · 13/03/2009 21:46

Agree with everything said about benefits.

Re: the mortgage, I would say:

Your agreement is with your friend that as co-owners you will meet half the mortgage costs each.

Your friend's agreement with you is that he will pay you half the mortgage cost for tenancy of the property.

These are separate agreements. Regardless of your relationship with the friend, and hers with the DP, you have an obligation to the Mortgage Company to meet the cost of the mortgage.

If the tenant can't pay you for his rent, that is your problem, because the mortgage still needs to be paid, and it is your share.

How you find that money is up to you, and you have chosen to find it by taking on the partner as your tenant.

Sorry

beanieb · 13/03/2009 21:51

but Lou - the OP has a tenancy agreement with him, not with her friend. So he has to stick to that agreement, surely.

or am I misunderstanding the post?

lou031205 · 13/03/2009 22:03

No beanieb, that is exactly what I am saying.

The OP has three, in effect, agreements. One with the mortgage company, that the mortgage will be paid. One with the friend that they will jointly pay the mortgage. One with the partner that she will allow him to live in her house in return for his rent.

If the partner defaults on his agreement with the OP, she still needs to meet the obligations of her agreement with the friend and mortgage company.

i.e. The mortgage must be paid, regardless of how she comes by the funds.

How she intended to come by that money is irrelevant. So she must keep up her half of the mortgage payments regardless of her or their situation.

Portofino · 13/03/2009 22:33

Lou, exactly!

Jux · 14/03/2009 10:13

Standard situation: you own a property but do not live in it. You rent it out. Tenant pays you rent, and you pay mortgage.

Tenant stops paying rent, you still pay mortgage. You kick tenant out, find a new one who does pay rent.

If your friend's bf cannot pay the rent you can find another tenant who can. The property is half yours; he is renting your room and sharing your sitting room, bathroom, kitchen etc. If he cannot pay you need a new tenant.

Your friend could say he is not using your room. So get another tenant who will use your room and pay the rent. If your friend and her bf don't like that idea, then they have to come up with the rent.

Original poster

Anglepoise · 14/03/2009 22:39

Sorry, just saw new messages.

I've emailed him to say that I can lend him the money for this month but not every month and suggesting that they find a lodger (suggesting that they do it rather than me because they're the ones who'll have to share with a lodger and they may well know someone).

I take the point that I'm still responsible for the mortgage whether he pays rent or not. Back when I was pregnant and planning to move, I wanted to put the flat on the market and have a clean break. Friend suggested moving her DP in as a way of covering my mortgage and her still getting to live there, so everyone was happy, so will be annoying if my mortgage doesn't actually get covered.

Anyway, thanks for all the help and replies

OP posts:

randomname · 15/03/2009 08:36

He would probably not be entitled to HB if he told the truth, The fact you and your friend (his partner) own property would make them look into it as can get sticky if a partner/family member owns it they may well not grant it also his partners income would be needed to work out entitlment (if he declares her)and sounds like she earns too much.
If you are a Landlord you have to accept people may notalways pay, chances are even if he got some money it wouldnt cover all of it and its paid 4 weeks in arrears anyway. As your friend is co owner you really need to talk to her, maybe you could email him and advise him you cannot afford it and will have to speak to her (as co owner)If you do this first you give him the chance to fess up if needed.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 15/03/2009 08:56

He will definitely NOT be entitled if he told the truth, and if it is found out he will be in trouble.

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