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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to cover someone else's rent this month?

68 replies

Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 16:42

Genuinely interested to see if AIBU but mainly I just want to rant!

Friend and I co-own a flat in London which we bought several years ago and used to share. Since then, I have met and married DH and had DD and she has met her DP. We moved 200 miles away when I was pregnant with DD and friend's DP moved in. He is theoretically renting my room, which pays off my share of the mortgage, but obviously shares her room and they keep my old room as a spare.

He has just been made redundant so has signed on for housing benefit to cover his share of the rent. He's just emailed to say that it will take a few weeks to go through, so he won't be able to pay rent this month and could I cover it. I am really really really annoyed. Surely if you can't cover your rent, that's your problem, not your landlord's?

I am still on maternity leave and what I get in SMP doesn't cover it. I could ask DH, who has savings, but I don't think this is up to us, is it? My friend is earning around double what DH and I currently have to live on, so I don't understand why her DP hasn't asked her - but all that aside, isn't it his problem not mine? Or is it my mortgage so my responsbility?

OP posts:
Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 17:53

Thanks for the replies DD is now asleep and, as a bonus, washing up is done (this tends to bore her into napping).

It was on a casual basis then we signed a tenancy agreement so that he could claim HB. I signed a form saying that I was his landlord - does this make me liable?

My next question was going to be AIBU to insist on it being put on the market? We have no agreement in place for this as when we bought we were two single gals and agreed only that we would work it out when it came to it, as we had no idea how things would change in the meantime, and that we wouldn't fall out over it

Will have a chat to DH when he gets in and then email friend ... argh.

Thanks again for letting me get things straight (ish) in my head.

OP posts:
JazzHands · 13/03/2009 18:02

It's good that you've signed a tenancy agreement as that sets out both of your obligations - and one of his is paying the rent - so he's rather shot himself in the foot there!

You have not done anything wrong by signing a form saying you are his landlord as that is true. He is the one who has said what his living arrangements/income etc are and so if he has told lies that is his fault. If for eg my tenant asked me to sign a form for housing ben I would sign it as I am his landlord. No-one would expect me to start quizzing him about his finances to check he was telling the truth - that is between him and the HB people. Although I have no experience of this I can't see how you could possibly be held responsible by anyone.

If you contact your friend then hopefully you will be able to resolve this amicably.

You are in a stonger position now yuo have the agreement.

I assume that you are able to say you want to sell your half (don't know the ins and outs of that) - if you tell your friend that you can't afford the mortgage, need the money and that if you are going to start being asked to cover the rent you will go under financially so you want to sell, you'll just have to see what she says.

lalalonglegs · 13/03/2009 18:03

This doesn't sound good to me. I'd say if you had signed a form saying you were his landlord, you are complicit in any benefit fraud (if he is pretendingnot to cohabit). I would be concerned that there was no agreement in place for selling up. I do think you should sit down with friend asap and discuss the situation even if that means a special trip back.

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 13/03/2009 18:13

I'm not sure this is in contravention of the law as he is renting your half of the flat and you are unrelated to him. Just cos he is boinging the other woman in the flat may be ok.

You are his landlord and he is probably asking you to cover the rent to cover himself. I suggest you don't involve her at all and keep this very clean for you and pay your share of the mortgage and act solely as his landlord.

He is probably doing the right thing asking you as it covers him and you. If he asked her it would muddy it.

AxisofEvil · 13/03/2009 18:18

You can force a sale with a court order but that is messy and expensive. I disagree with Laurie - I think this is mainly between you and her not you and him. And whilst in a philosophical sense he is renting your half in practice both you and her jointly own your flat rather than owning seperate parts you can let out. Don't email her - call her. Hardwired or not.

lalalonglegs · 13/03/2009 18:19

But Laurie, if he is co-habiting with the OP's co-owner then it can't be kept clean; the HB people will regard it as either a claim that they will not pay on the basis that he has a partner in employment if he comes clean, or will regard it as fraud if they do end up paying and find out about the relationship later on.

Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 18:23

I have a phone phobia - I don't call anyone. The annoying thing is that we were staying there last weekend, so could have discussed it then.

I wouldn't force a sale - I don't want to fall out, she's a very good friend.

Is it too early for wine?

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 13/03/2009 18:29

'If he can't get HB then we're a bit screwed, but surely they don't count as family if they're not married? Would be a bit unfair to get none of the benefits of being married by co-habiting but still be penalised for it. '

It doesn't matter if they're not married. He is living with her as a domestic partner.

Her income must be taken into account whilst calculating housing benefit for her.

His application is fraudulent if he did not claim to have a partner when he is living with someone as a partner.

Sorrento · 13/03/2009 18:36

Tell her to split up with him asap if he's only a boyfriend, otherwise a months rent might end up being the least of your worries.

Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 18:42

Yeah expat, realise I've got that wrong now

Sorrento I'm confused!

OP posts:
Sorrento · 13/03/2009 18:46

The question is I guess how serious is their relationship, are they at the paying each others rent stage of things ?
If not he needs to move into that spare room and they need to be flat mates on paper because somebody needs to cover the rent/share of the mortgage and as you aren't living there it shouldn't be you.
So if he needs/wants housing benefit then the have to live like flat mates, they can still be boyfriend and girlfriend without the financial dependancy on each other but seperate rooms would mean they aren't committing fraud.
As long as they aren't paying each others bills and the like there's no reason why he can't claim housing benefit and income support.

Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 18:48

I see, thanks. I think they are fairly serious, but he pays a set amount each month which covers mortgage + bills (I didn't know this, I assumed that they just split bills - don't know whether that makes a difference).

OP posts:
Sorrento · 13/03/2009 18:49

That's financial dependance which means she will have to pick up the tab then.
Sorry

Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 18:54

Bother. Wouldn't it be dependence if they were splitting bills but not if he's effectively paying his share as part of the rent?

OP posts:
hedgiemum · 13/03/2009 19:11

You really need a legal rental agreement with him. Tell him in writing what Edwardbear says, but alongside that, tell your friend that you and her need to set up a proper rental agreement with him (available on line very cheaply), to cover each of you.

I know how awkward this is - we got fed up of our estate agents and let our rental property out to so-called-good-friends last year, with no deposit or proper rental agreement, and grossly reduced rent for them, in exchange (theoretically) for them doing mantainence there, and gardening, themselves. DIASTER! They were three sharers, but one had huge row with others (despite us all being friends for more than 5 years) and the whole thing deteriorated SO badly. We tried to kick them out quickly, but one refused to leave, and we discovered that because they had been paying us for living in our house, they had all the legal rights of tenants, but without any of the responsibilities (beyond paying rent) because they didn't have rental agreement.

This rent issue could blow over very quickly, but you are still exposed to bigger issues, and you need a legal agreement! Plus, it would stop things like this happening in future. If your friends refuses (which legally she can't if you're renting a room out, I believe) then she'll have to cave in and sell.

JazzHands · 13/03/2009 19:12

lala why does signing the form to say she is the landlord make her complicit in any fraud he may be comitting? She is his landlord - there is a tenancy agreement in place - and what she has said is true. How can she be held responsible if he has lied? Surely I could not be held responsible if my tenant lied?

She doesn't even know what he's told the benefit people - he may have told the truth and they will come back and say he is not eligible for benefit. How can she be complicit in something that she knows nothing about and where she has only told the truth?

I just want to get clear in my head in case I am ever in this position with my tenant, and also as I find it hard to believe that can be right and would be reassuring for the OP. it cannot be up to the landlord to vet the tenant's situaiton and benefit claims?

Jux · 13/03/2009 19:13

Just e-mail back saying no. He can borrow it from someone. He's chancing it because of the personal aspect - living with one of the co-owners/friend of LL. His e-mail is blase and really cheeky. Has he signed a tenancy agreement. If he hasn't, then he'd better because DSS don't like it if you haven't got one and that can make claims quite sticky.

Sorrento · 13/03/2009 19:14

Well no you you see, because for example my friend owned a flat and did in fact really split up with her boyfriend and because he had no where to live she put in in the spare room, gave him a rent book and split the bills 50/50 with him which meant he was entitled to everything.
The problem will be if she pays his share of the mortgage/rent and he is only entitled to contribution based job seekers allowance is that only gets paid for 6 months so after that he won't get a penny and will be relying on her to pay for everything hence why I suggested one months rent would be the least of their worries.

I guess it does depend on how she feels about keeping him for now and if that lasts a while, my hubby has had 2 job offers since November and both withdrawn at the last min, it really is tough out there.

hedgiemum · 13/03/2009 19:16

Sorry to tell you about rental agreement when see now you have one - started writing my post over an hour ago and was distracted by DC and didn't check your later posts before I finished it.

Glad you've got one as it covers you for worst case scenario. I would be telling him you can't cover it, as above, and talking to a solicitor about the wider issues. this situation could spiral, so be careful.

Sorrento · 13/03/2009 19:16

The others are right even if he gets a job tomorrow he still needs a tenancy agreement in case they do split up and he makes a claim to the flat on the basis that he has been paying the mortgage all this time.

Sorrento · 13/03/2009 19:16

Lol now ignore me too, was filled with horror !!!

Jux · 13/03/2009 19:16

Sorry, just come out the end of a saga of friend of friend renting from us. He's finally gone owing us £2K which we're going to have to go to court for (and probably won't get anyway). Rent was never paid in full or on time.

Another thing about DSS is they only pay every 28 days which is a right royal pain if the rent's pcm.

AnarchyAunt · 13/03/2009 19:19

Housing Benefit can now be paid calendar monthly under the new LHA rules

You have done nothing wrong in signing the form. He however will be if he tries to get HB without declaring that he lives as a couple with an employed partner.

Original poster
Anglepoise · 13/03/2009 19:24

Yes, I am relieved that we now have a tenancy agreement. He is a really nice guy but I was (nearly) a family solicitor a long time ago, so should know better!

OP posts:
JazzHands · 13/03/2009 19:58

I think you need to have a chat with your friend TBH. Can your DH call and then pass the phone over? Not prying but these things are usually better spoken as there is less room to be misconstrued than by email/text.