Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this punishment a bit degrading?

109 replies

thirtysomething · 12/03/2009 20:50

DS aged 10 was kept back from assembly by his somewhat ambitious teacher to do some science extension work as an "experiment" (her words). He is one of the more able kids at science apparently.
Anyway, he got the method right but made a stupid mistake with a calculation - added two numbers rather than multiplies them. So she went and found the coolest teacher in the school (in DS's opinion) and made DS sit in front of this teacher wearing a pink fluffy hat repeating the times table he'd got wrong 10 times.

DS said he was embarassed. i actually think it's inappropriate though DP thinks I should just let it go? This is a young, pushy teacher who's getting them all very worked up about SATs at the moment.

OP posts:
abbierhodes · 12/03/2009 22:31

I'm a teacher, and she sounds very inexperienced and misguided, to say the least. Definitely go to the head.

Cathpot, you're being very diplomatic, but clutching at straws I think! If she was getting all the kids to wear a funny hat and recite times tables, having a laugh at the same time, then fair enough.

I once taught spellings by getting pupils to do press ups as they recited them!!! (This was at the suggestion of a pupil, not me, and no one was forced!) But I really don't think this is the same thing.

Cathpot · 12/03/2009 22:40

abbierhodes- quite possibly re straws, and like you I wouldnt use the wackier stuff for a child on their own; whole class in pink hats under table sounds fun, one child sounds at best, intimidating.

Its just sounds like such an odd event, I would want her side to the story so at the very least you know how she is going to defend herself to the Head. Then thirtysomething can prepare herself for how she will then handle that further conversation with the Head. I always need to think through what I am going to say in confrontational situations otherwise I just babble and go home without having made my point.

EightiesChick · 12/03/2009 22:41

I would go to the head because IMO you shouldn't take the risk of the teacher thinking that your DS is off limits for this sort of thing, but she could still try it on other kids, that you as his mother are being 'oversensitive' etc. She needs to be told by a fellow professional who is senior to her that this is unacceptable. From what you have said about her she may have the over-inflated confidence that you sometimes see with people who are inexperienced but enthusiastic in a job, and so might not take your concerns as seriously as you would like. If needsbe, ask for a meeting with your head and the teacher, or even with them and your DS too, to straighten things out.

I teach and would be very careful to avoid any treatment of a class member that aims to deliberately embarrass them in this way - my training taught me that it is absolutely out of order.

Cathpot · 12/03/2009 22:43

I am off to bed now- thirtysomething do come back and tell us what happens, hope it all gets sorted out.

electra · 12/03/2009 22:44

Bloody hell How awful - are we still living in Victorian times?? It sounds like some variation on the dunce's hat, surely?

Highly inappropriate and I most certainly would not be letting that go!

HappyandEiknowit · 12/03/2009 22:45

O.M.FUCKING.G!!! how dare she do that to your TEN YEAR OLD DS!!!!!
the thing that bothers me most about this is he made a simple mistake in adding 2 values together rather than multiplying the same values...how in doing this does that prove he doesnt know his times tables????? does it not just indicate that me made a very simple mistake???? what possible reason would she have to validate this kind of behaviour??
TBH i would go in all guns blazing myself but it might be better to keep a cool head and speak to the bitch teacher in question and if no valid answer from her then go to the head and explain that you demand something done about this or you WILL be speaking to the board of governers/ofstead about her and the schools conduct!! this is humiliation and bullying and shouldnt exist in this form but obviously does!!
just a question OP you said there have been a few things in the past that caused you to worry about this teacher, what were they?? just nosey me
xx ei xx

JodieO · 12/03/2009 22:55

I would be livid and the stupid teacher would be very sorry she'd chosen my child to humiliate. If it's ok to do that to a child (she must think) then she is fair game imo. I would want to go in a just punch her in the face tbh but I wouldn't, I would do it the proper way but she would still be sorry.

faeriefruitcake · 12/03/2009 23:43

As a teacher and a parent I would complain about this. It was deliberately abusive towards your DS. Teaching is hard enough without colleagues like this.

onebatmother · 12/03/2009 23:49

If you're not happy with this (and god knows I wouldnt' be) you might want to break it down.
a. a child gets something wrong and is punished?
b. the child is punished by being humiliated.
c. the humiliation takes the form of being forced to wear something which is perceived to be gender-inappropriate (message: it's humiliating to be "girly"/"gay")
d. 2 teachers collude in this bullying

I'd write in these very basic terms, iiwy.

Original poster
thirtysomething · 13/03/2009 10:28

onebatmother that's a very useful way of thinking about it.....mmmm, maybe i should write a letter to the head as it will avoid me losing my rag. He wasn't there this morning. Had another chat with DS who has decided - quite bravely I think - that he wants to tell the teacher today how she made him feel. i told him to make sure he lets her know that I know. I'm not sure at al if this is the best thing to do but DS was very upset indeed at the thought of me speaking to school directly about it. he's worried about repercusssions. I feel strongly that i have to respect his wishes today at least. We agreed that if he doesn't get an apology from her then he'll be okay with me going into school. I think if he does say his piece to her (and I believe he will)and she realises that I know too she will hopefully be mortified and will learn her lesson (knowing full well I could go to the head if I wanted to).

She is new to the school this year and very young. She's also been given v. high SATs targets for her group and is putting them all under a lot of pressure to achieve.

Thanks everyone for all your input - invaluable and very very helpful in allowing me to look at all the angles.

OP posts:
katiestar · 13/03/2009 10:37

I can only think she was doing it as a kind of memory aid rather than a punishment (and tell your DS that )but still very misguided

mayorquimby · 13/03/2009 10:40

" Humilialting children is never an acceptable punishment"

ok is there a sliding scale to this?cause while i think the case in the op is completely wrong, it was serious punishment on one individual that was meant for nothing other than humiliation and punishment.
but i do something (only vaguely vaguely) similar with the girls (4th-6th class) i coach football. normally it will be something stupid like the losing team will have to sing a song of the winners choice for about 30 seconds. now this is meant as a fun stpid punishment, and i'd never make one kid do it on their own or force it if they seemed embarressed.in fact they seem to enjoy it.
should i stop because it does in fairness have the potential to be embarressing, or is this acceptable level of stupid fun?
sorry for the thread hijack, just some of the responses made me think i might be doing untold damage

thumbwitch · 13/03/2009 10:40

totally ridiculous punishment - I thought they weren't allowed to inflict this sort of humiliating treatment on children these days?

And definitely OTT for the error made - WTF? He makes one tiny mathematical error, understandable at any time of stress, and gets this level of reaction? That teacher needs a serious talking to, so yes, I would be taking it up with the Head as well.

thumbwitch · 13/03/2009 10:43

MQ - I think you are ok with what you're doing, because it is a group activity, everyone participating in a ritual self-flagellation for not winning, in a light-hearted way (I assume you know this and were being ironic, of course)

troutpout · 13/03/2009 10:52

yanbu
Wrong in so many ways

AlysGriffin · 13/03/2009 11:00

MQ, setting aside the question of whether your song thing is unduly embarrassing, I just don't get why you want to punish the losing team at all. What are you trying to achieve as a teacher by doing that?

mayorquimby · 13/03/2009 11:02

thumbwitch yes i do kind of know it. and of course anything i do when coaching them is in my mind fun and lighthearted.
but as a young bloke coaching kids i appreciate getting an outside perspective as i never know what the parents are thinking on the side-lines. especially when coaching the girls as the little ones are far more tactile than the guys,always wanting hugs etc, and the older ones are about to hit puberty, so i know some parents are in the "paedo round every corner" camp so unfortunately find myself worrying about outside impressions.
so just good to get a barometer that i'm nt going insane.

mayorquimby · 13/03/2009 11:05

"MQ, setting aside the question of whether your song thing is unduly embarrassing, I just don't get why you want to punish the losing team at all. What are you trying to achieve as a teacher by doing that? "

oh it's just to keep them interested when we are running drills etc to describe some of my girls as "less than interested in football" would be an understatement, so i try to keep it fun for them. so it'll be a relay race and i'll just do something like losing team has to sing a song etc. i always try to keep the teams fair and i honestly think the losing team enjoy it more than the winning team.
7but this is why i'm asking on here, is this a bad idea?i've only done it once or twice and if the consensus on here was that i should stop than i think i'd heed that advice.
i normally just do winning team gets first choice of sweets at the end of training, maybe i'll go back to that.

JaneSeymour · 13/03/2009 11:05

This is shocking

You need to confront and complain

I'm very angry on your behalf, and on your son's behalf

Rollmops · 13/03/2009 11:18

This is humiliation and therefore very very wrong! You should definitely speak to that teacher and if neccessary, with the headmaster as well .
YANBU the slightest!

Original poster
thirtysomething · 13/03/2009 11:21

Jane I'm v. v. angry today. In fact I feel a bit sick really as I think we entrust our children to teachers and don't expect their self-esteem to be damaged in this way.

Thinking about it I've also been upset by the fact that although DS was clearly humiliated by this he didn't have a strong sense that what she did was inappropriate, which makes me wonder if she does this kind of thing a lot. he said she'd never done this before that he knew about, but he was visibly surprised when I explained that it was wrong of a teacher to behave like this and that he didn't always have to do what she said if it made him feel this uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to make of that. i think he's very confused now about how teachers should be with their class.

OP posts:
Divineintervention · 13/03/2009 11:22

What a stupid cow.

Ripeberry · 13/03/2009 11:25

Complain to Ofsted if the headmaster does nothing about it. They will start sweating then! The teacher is deranged!

AlysGriffin · 13/03/2009 11:38

MQ - I can totally see that varying the pace and mood of the lesson is a good way to keep students engaged. I just don't really understand why, if it's something fun and the girls who do it enjoy it, you wouldn't make it something for the whole group to do? Self-humiliation for the losers, however joky, is just a bit painfully reminiscent for me of the old-skool PE teachers whose hands I suffered at... but I am sure you are MUCH less of a rancid old bag than they were!

sorry for hijack OP - I think this is a disgraceful way to treat a child, and you should complain vigrously.

mayorquimby · 13/03/2009 11:50

hmm might ditch it so if that's the case.
never suffered at the hands of a p.e. teacher in my past so don't know what it's like.