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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect a headteacher to be sacked after being prosecuted for drink driving?

98 replies

Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 11:30

A headteacher in a school nearby was charged with drink driving during school hours and lost their license last summer.

They have now been suspended (last week)- pending an investigation but the reason was not stated in the local press.

OP posts:
LadyGlencoraPalliser · 10/03/2009 12:26

Well you did post in AIBU...
What I am trying to get at is what is the purpose of your post? What outcome are you looking for here? The opinion of a lot of random MNers on a situation that neither they nor you are privy to the full details of is hardly going to advance your thinking on the subject further.

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 12:30

It is said to have been when they left a lunchtime leaving party so I think during the day - so not sure about this.

I started the thread stating what has been published in the media but I know from talking to others in the community it is rumoured that there is a drink problems and there have been incidents at functions after school whereby they have deemed to have behaved inappropriately and that other staff at the school were embarassed.

It is rumoured that this suspension (due to the time elasped since the summer drink drive thing) may be related to misconduct/drink.

Remeber this person is responsible for leading many others and making key decisions.

OP posts:
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 10/03/2009 12:32

For me it would depend on the corcumstances, if he has a drink problem and was driving to work roaring drunk then I'd probably prefer it if he was no longer head. At least until he'd sorted himself out.

If however he'd been out the night before, misjudged how long he needed to leave it before driving and was still over the limit from that then no I would want him to keep his job.

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 12:35

Exactly that Lady opinions from random MNetters. I genuinely can't make up my mind about this situation and like I said I am redy to hear others and consider their views. I have not raised this anywhere else but on here - I would not 'mess' with someones reputation, its been in papers anyway.

You have a fair point about not being privy to full details.

You know Lady most threads do invite the opinions of MN and value this as a source of advice, support and to act as a sounding board.

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 10/03/2009 12:36

If this is part of a longterm drinking problem, then I would assume that the LEA/governors/whoever is in charge of these things will be looking at how they can best balance up both the interests of the school, and the future of the headteacher. They might for example suggest some time off, or rules under which they can stay in position. Permanently destroying someone's livelihood is a very big step to take, and they will want to avoid that if possible, while obviously not putting children or the school at risk.

OTOH if this was a one-off lapse, then the headteacher will have to work at regaining the trust of the school community by being honest about what happened and how he/she has learnt from this and will move forwards. As others have said, that can be a good example for secondary pupils - we all make mistakes, and the consequence of some of those can be long-lasting.

NewTeacher · 10/03/2009 12:37

Its the GTC!!!!

Yes he made a mistake. He has been punished. To lose your job though? If someone had been injured or died then its a different matter.

2shoes · 10/03/2009 12:46

yabu(as long as he didn't kill anyone)

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 12:46

I like your post AMUMINSCOTLAND because I like the idea of something being done to safeguard staff and students, but also support the headteacher.

They were honest with staff and parents, cant say for students (I will ask friend) but I know there was all sorts flying around cyberspace.

OP posts:
Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 12:50

NEW TEACHER and 2SHOES

I hope you are not implying that it is ok to drink drive as long as you dont injure/anyone?

The fact is the risk was there. Would you be happy driving/walking by that stretch of road or your kids?

Or that fact that this person is in a position that has a high degree of responsibility and needs to be fully competent at all times.

OP posts:
nickytwotimes · 10/03/2009 12:51

Yes, GTC.
Having an numptie day.
Well seen it's not me that's the teacher in this house.

2shoes · 10/03/2009 12:53

Icantbelieveitparent if you want everyone to agree with you...don't ask AIBU
as long as it doesn't affect his job, and he is a good teacher yes yabu

NewTeacher · 10/03/2009 12:57

ICBP - Of course I dont agree with drink driving!

What I'm saying in this particular case there hasnt been a death or injury so cant he have the benefit of the doubt?

He has been punished by getting some sort of criminal record so he hasnt been let off has he.

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 13:04

Ok you two - no i have stated previously all views are welcome, so I am happy about where I have put this thread.

I have tried to liken this to stuff I see in the media about MP's and sleaze but I think so what if they like it this or that way with someone - as long as they doing their jobs - but I just come back to its childrens education.

I suppose everyone will have to wait to see what this latest suspension is about and if there is a wider problem that is related to a drink problem - I just wouldnt want my child going there if this is the case and they are in post.

I feel sorry for the staff aswell.

OP posts:
notagrannyyet · 10/03/2009 13:09

There are industries where people are not given the benefit of the doubt though NewTEacher.

Drinking during working hours is a sackable offence in many industries.

NewTeacher · 10/03/2009 13:17

I have to say that in reality no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

The fact that he has been caught means it has come to everyones attention. YOu say you wouldn't be happy for your child to go to that school. Fair enough - your child - your choice.

BUT there is plenty going on in schools that you do not know about but the school still has an air of respectability so you would send your child there.

Dont judge a book by its cover, the media has a way of over dramatising things as well.

You'll find out soon enough what happens to the man. If he has a drink problem this maybe the cry for help he needs. Everyone makes mistakes and the moral is we should learn from them.

annh · 10/03/2009 13:19

OP, I think is is completely unacceptable for a headteacher to be under the influence of alcohol when they are meant to be working. However, you seem to have little hard information as to what actually happened or what his suspension now relates to. In your post of 12.30 you said you think the incident occured at lunchtime but you are not sure. You have relied on what has been in the newspapers and what people (who may have no more information than you) are saying and you have twice said it is rumoured, in relation to different aspects of the issue. Unless you know what happened at the time, what is happening now and what the suspension relates to, you are only building up unfounded hysteria around something which you have no accureate details for and which may be being dealt with as we type!

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 13:21

I never said it was man everyone assumed it was.

I know this about schools Newteacher but if this turns out to be true and they appoint a new head this school will have had 5 heads in 6 years including two interim headteachers - this has got be unsettling for all involved.

Are you actually a teacher NEWTEACHER and if so are you recently qualified? I understand if you do not want to share this - i just asked because of your 'chat name'

OP posts:
NewTeacher · 10/03/2009 13:27

Yes I am a teacher.

The school is in a sorry state having had so many heads and yes it is unsettling.

If he/she has been drinking on the job he/she will be suitably disciplined and its upto the governers and LEA to decide what becomes of the them.

Teachers unions and all involved will be fair and do what they think is the right course of action.

Being a Head is an extremely stressful job and if this school has had so many this particular position is more stressful than most.

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 13:31

Thanks NEWT - I will keep in mind peoples views and just wait to see what other FACTUAL information is released.

I know it is not the only thing to consider, there are plenty of other seemingly decent schools nearby.

I shall of course be speaking to DC's!

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 10/03/2009 13:42

the foolish actions of headteacher should be looked at globally without knee jerk reaction

is he a good teacher?was this a rash error of judgement

his actions don't necessarily make the rest of the teachers incompetent/rash.yes HT has leadership role but he wasn't compelling others to imitate his actions was he?

as humans we are flawed,and sometimes people make dreadful mistakes,i am not condoning this.merely saying perhaps some understanding of the turmoil this caused

bit radical to reconsider dc school place on basis of this.do seek reassurance before any actions

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 13:53

ScottishMummy

I KNOW the HT does not make the rest of the other teacher incompentent. But I do enough about how schools work to know that they can have massive influence over morale and when making key decisions may support or restrict staff, this could be whether a certain after school activity runs or Easter revision classes. If you think a headteachers influence does not reach into every single classroom then you are bit misguided.

Yr 11's have targets to acheive - set based on HT policy, the pressure put on staff and students in KS4 is immense. That HT may decide the criteria with the SMT as to whether your DC's attend booster classes or are withdrawn from entry.

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 10/03/2009 14:37

your tone is a bit snippy and exasperated ICBIP.i'm not misguided but you are humphy

i know this/that
you only want certain non attacking posts

tell you what nexy time you want affirmative responses or a roundof response for posting/knowing dont post on AIBU

madwomanintheattic · 10/03/2009 14:39

let the system do the job it is designed to do. playground hysteria is the source of many problems tbh.

a lunchtime leaving do? meh. could have had his drink spiked a few times and not known he was over the limit - maybe they had a few bottles of wine on the table and an over-enthusiastic waiter that topped his glass up when he turned round. probably wasn't going back to work anyway so thought he'd have a glass to show his appreciation of whoever was leaving. (finding it slightly unbelievable that a leaving do from a school was being held at lunchtime, but hey ho.)

i honestly wouldn't waste any more of your time fretting over it. if you're that bothered about local schools, give the lea a ring - always on the lookout for governors. it would be of far more benefit to the local community than aibu-ing on mumsnet tbh.

nametaken · 10/03/2009 14:53

YABU

It only takes 2 drinks to be over the limit.

haven't you ever double parked? Haven't you ever sneakily glanced at another man. Haven't you ever gone through the lights on Amber. Haven't you ever found money in the street and kept it?

Don't be so bloody judgemental. I bet the headteacher you're refering to is a woman.

Original poster
Icantbelieveitparent · 10/03/2009 14:54

Scottish Mummy - be fair, surely you are 'allowed' to repsond to posters. Ive seen many threads where posters complain that OP hasn't responded.

I don't advocate wanting only certain posts - I don't see the problem with posters who disagree - this is what discussions are about, all of these views are helping me to reach my own conclusion about this issue.

On the contrary your use of the phrase 'non attacking' posts - opinions are fine directed at the content but not at the poster. You seemed to be more botheres that I have disagreed with you.

OP posts: