to be annoyed that the UK is turning into a nanny state with alcohol?

[LuckySalem]

I can't find a link but apparently Scotland started a new law (or something) yesterday that sets a limit on how cheap alcohol can be.

Now I rarely drink at all so I spose it doesn't affect me too much but I can't help but be annoyed that because some people don't know their limits the government is now imposing some prices on us which is only going to stop the low earners being able to afford it - If that makes any sense at all.

I'm just annoyed that I feel my freedoms are being affected. I know its only in Scotland at the mo but you know it'll be all over UK very soon.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are being unreasonable, but I disagree with you. I feel the state should try to curb binge drinking in youngsters, and I welcome steps being taken to this end.

booze is way too cheap. about time it was put up imo.

this story shocked me this morning!

I agree with sea.
You can buy booze for less than soft drinks.

The limit will be imposed in supermarkets and local shops only. The price of a drink in a restaurant or pub will not change.

It is a fantastic initiative in my opinion. At the moment for a fiver you can buy 7 litres of cheap cider and a few beers.
Hopefully this will prevent the younger kids from spending what is effectively pocket money on getting rat arsed and setting themselves up for a potential problem in the future.

You do know that the initiative is also being backed up with the Rory programme in schools don't you? A pilot scheme is running where primary school age and upwards will have different age appropriate activities to discuss appropriate behaviours/attitudes around alchohol.

The minimum price is never going to affect a hardened alchoholic and that isn't the aim of this.
The aim is to try to stem the rising tide of youngsters who see getting pissed every weekend as harmless and normal which in turn is giving a generation of kids the attitude that alchohol is fine to be consumed in large amounts on a regular basis.

As a country we cannot afford to support fully the huge amount of care that a rising population of people with alchohol related illness will bring.
The NHS doesn't have a neverending pot of money, far better to try and prevent a problem before it happens.

Turning?

It's just a shame that social norms limiting people's excesses no longer seem to work in the me me me culture that now pervades this country. This is now a country where moral relativism has reached such dizzy heights that 14 yr olds think burglary is a valid career choice.

I detest nannying and legislating thing that should be ruled by common sense, but I detest even more wading through puddles of vomit, urine and broken glass after the average evening in most of our towns. Also I see no need for innocent passersby to be involved in other people's drunken loutishness. Frankly town centres scare me at night.

SEA - That story is ridiculous!! Some people will go to some ends to get a drink.

But is raising the alcohol prices REALLY gonna end this? Parents should be able to teach their children that drinking such amounts is a bad thing. Its like the government is parenting for us and ruining it for those who are responsible.

Although I do agree that some alcohol's should be risen (I'm sure Tesco sell a 4 pack of lager for less that £1) it just feels like the government is being abit silly with things.

The other one that got my goat was that cigarettes were going to be put under the counter. I just dont understand what's going on.

Ooh, like your style emkana, that's a really good way to put it. Will blatantly copy by agreeing YAN necessarily BU, but I disagree.

This is about pushing up the prices of the cheapest alcohol, to discourage those who are affected by price considerations from drinking so much. I'm not a drinker either any more, but I assumed this was aimed at the very young (in the reporting I saw, there was reference to "pocket money prices" being a particular concern) and the youngish/still poorish who binge drink. Nobody needs to be able to afford to binge drink imo.

And it's really not just teenagers behaving like this- it is first and foremost adults. The teens may do this on a smaller scale if left to their own devices, but now have to outdo their feckless older siblings, uncles, aunts and parents.

I don't think it's law yet, just a consultation at the moment. They're planning a few things which I have a probelm with, like upping the age limit in off-licenses to 21 instead of 18. So, you could be married, have a couple of kids, have a nice house and a mortgage, and want to have some friends round for a nice quiet dinner, but not be able to buy a bottle of wine!

The minimum price per unit doesn't bother me as much, because some of the loss-leader prices on booze in the supermarket are a joke, and do encourage real boozing.

I agree that its disguisting with the way people act when they're drunk and I think its also disguisting that the NHS are having to pay the bill but surely its a sign of the times?

Kids never use to go out and get pissed every weekend so whats changed? Are parents getting pissed every weekend now so that kids are copying? I personally dont know anyone like that but I see lots of kids around by me walking around with lots of beers.

Will search Rory as never heard of that.

Thing is, it's the nanny state and, more importantly, the survellance state that is contributing to more and more antisocial behaviour. If you treat everyone as a feral moron who can't be trusted, has to be checked up on and pushed around all the time, a lot of people are going to behave stupidly because they start losing the ability to think for themselves (particularly when the suspicion and the contempt with which the Government treats most people is backed by a tabloid culture of mindless, constantly changing hysteria and sentimentality, 'love' some or other nonentity one week, 'hate' them the next) - and, particularly, being under constant survelliance does damage to your mental health. It has been used as a form of torturre, because it's effective as a form of torture.

I agree solid i hate that there are CCTV cameras in my town centre as I'm constantly feeling like I'm being watched.

However on a smaller level I'm glad they're there in case something ever happened to me or mine and we needed proof etc.

I dunno - I dont think I'm completely made up in my mind myself I just know I dont like the idea of being told how much I have to pay to buy a bottle of wine in case I was to buy 10 and drink them all in one night.

law has been proposed not in place. i think it is v. sensible. i loved all the folk on chanel 4 whinging on about 'rights', since when has getting pissed out of your head on buckfast aged 14 been a 'right'.

solidgold- I'm not sure I know what you mean. I'm sure I'm on CCTV several dozens of times every time I go to town, but it never occurs to me! It's hardly intrusive monitoring (which doesn't mean that I agree with, just that I recognise the need for it the way things are at the moment). And mature people do not misbehave and compromise their own principles because they are being watched. That would be utterly ridiculous.

Because nannying is far cheaper than addressing the real sources of the UK's problems with alcohol.

For one, there is little to no consequence for alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour. Even causing death whilst driving under the influence isn't very severely punished.

Yet strenthening the laws to really punish people who engage in anti-social behaviours and putting the administration in place (as well as jails, detox centres, etc.) and hiring more police to enforce tougher laws is expensive.

Then there's the almost total lack of social activities to do indoors or in the long evenings that don't involve spending loads of money.

Cheaper, low-cost gyms, community centres open till late. That's costly, so not going to happen.

Encouraging businesses like juice bars and cafes to stay open later hours. Again, not going to happen and retail shopping centres generally close early so no place to hang out.

Then you have a generation of parents who've grown up seeing alcohol abuse and are now doing it themselves and quite honestly can't be arsed parenting.

Again, an expensive problem to fix.

Even raising the drinking age doesn't work without heavy enforcement anre real penalties for people who sell to minors and buy for minors and then you need to actually give police some real power and get them there asap when a shopkeeper's being threatened by youths wanting to buy booze.

And look at the US. Sure, you can't drink. But lemme tell you, you can get drugs so easily and cheaply it's stunning.

They are a major problem with youths on drugs, particularly meth amphetimine, and it stretches across all racial and socioeconomic lines.

You have to really get to the heart of why people drink, not just young people, either, because cases of health diseases from alcohol is actually rising fastest among people around my age (38) and the rates for women is skyrocketing.

Much cheaper just to raise the price, bring in more revenue and try to convince everyone it's for the good of their health.

That's why I disagree with this and all government-by-initiative and government-by-target lazy thinking bollocks.

personally i hate going into a wine shop to buy 1 bottle adn being coerced into buying 3 for atenner or whatever.

surveillance doesn't lead to kids getting pissed though does it?

When i was a kid (only 17 yrs ago....) i would get drunk occasionally with my friends, most teens do at some point. It's all part of growing up and experimenting. NOt a desirable part of it perhaps but it does happen.
The difference now is that alchohol is so cheap that kids can afford to get pissed as often as they want and lets face it, many teens don't have an "off" switch in the sense that alot of adults do. They don't see the long game, it's about the here and now of this weekend, this party, this day bunking off school.

I don't think a nanny state is a good thing and i do have a huge problem withe the amount of cameras around, the amount of information held about me by government depts etc, but i think that this particular initiative is a good one and is needed.

Oh I've just read in the Scotsman that the 21 off-license plan has been ditched, likewise the separate-counters plan.

So it's now really just the minimum price per unit, and a ban on "3 for 2"s etc.

It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive it is.

It's much more expensive in other countries and they still have a problem with binge drinking.

It's a cultural issue and those are expensive paradigms to adjust so it's easier to demonise and tax.

Next will be food.

i dont think these laws will stop people.
As a 15 year old i would get together with 8 mates every saturday and we would pool our pocket money (£2.50 each) we would be able to buy enough alcohol to get us all very merry with this money.
I am one of the horrid binge drinkers people keep talking about and i am 30 years of age with mortgage and kids! I go out once a month if im lucky and will drink to excess, for the rest of the month i may have one glass of wine or a few glasses of cider but its maybe once or twice a week and no more than one glass, i can also go for weeks without touching a drop!
I suppose what im trying to say is that it wont stop binge drinkers, they will just go out 3 times a month instead of 4 etc and teenagers will find a way to get alcohol no matter what the price! Cigarettes have gone up lots in price but still teenagers manage to buy them to feed the habit!

but goat - DONT BUY THEM! If you went for 1 bottle get 1 bottle. (or as I do buy 3 then notice 6 months later that all 3 are still there LMAO)

See this is where your sensibleness (not a word i'm sure but hey) should kick in. If you do/can buy them doesn't mean you have to drink them all and i'm sure this is where the government believe we are failing.

Because you can buy 2 get 1 free it automatically means your obviously going to drink all 3

As Expat says - If there were things for kids to do they wouldn't be out drinking all night. IF there were parents who took notice of their kids they wouldn't be out drinking all night and its not just drink (totally off subject here but) oposite to our house is another house with 2 children in. They have a HUGE trampoline and the kids from the neighbourhood regular come around stand on top of the roof of their shed and jump onto trampoline.
Surely the parents should be able to see this and go out and stop them but all you get is now and then the off "STOP SCREAMING" from inside the house after someone has fallen off.

When this came on the news I said straightaway that really determined people would either drive into Carlisle or possibly even take a trip to Ireland to buy it there.

It's a bit hypocritical coming from the same Government that brought back 24-hr licensing.

I suppose any actions better than none wrt tackling potential alcohol abuse but to be effective, it needs to go hand in hand with education programmes about the effects of alcohol and other activities put in place such as gyms, youth clubs etc.

bonkerz EXACTLY!

agree with expat there is a real lack of affordable activies for youths in the evenings. but alcohol has become very cheap and 24hour opening times happy hours etc just didn't exist when i was younger.

What expat said.

Though I do think that supermarkets could reasonably be stopped from selling alcohol at a loss in order to attract customers.