to be annoyed that the UK is turning into a nanny state with alcohol?

[LuckySalem]

I can't find a link but apparently Scotland started a new law (or something) yesterday that sets a limit on how cheap alcohol can be.

Now I rarely drink at all so I spose it doesn't affect me too much but I can't help but be annoyed that because some people don't know their limits the government is now imposing some prices on us which is only going to stop the low earners being able to afford it - If that makes any sense at all.

I'm just annoyed that I feel my freedoms are being affected. I know its only in Scotland at the mo but you know it'll be all over UK very soon.

i don't buy them but i do get hassle from the staff - 'oh don't you realise that you can drink yourself to an early grave if you spend an extra £3'.

i think it is a good idea. the effect on safe consumers of alcohol is minimal, the effect on dangerous users is in the hundreds per year.

Goat - sorry to single you out. They're going to tell you that as they think they're doing you a favour. It's not about hassling you. They just want to make sure you didnt miss it

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand I agree with Expat that they really should be looking at the root causes and dealing with all of the social problems that lead to alcohol abuse. Scotland has a massive problem with alcohol, but it tends to be the countries where alcohol is expensive that have problems (Scandinavia and the UK, mostly in Europe) not those where it is cheap (the mediterranean countries), which leads me to think that the problem is not going to go away by increasing the price. The neds' drink of choice, Buckfast, apparently won't be affected by these proposals anyway, as it's already relatively expensive.

However, I do think that there is something wrong with a country where you go into Tescos to be confronted by shelves full of cheap booze, special offers on beer and wine, instead of ranks of cheap vegetables.

yes they do think they are going me a favour but you know what i mean - and stop picking on me!

sorry goat

"You have to really get to the heart of why people drink"

Exactly expat. Why in every culture and every society is there something that we consume to get a little bit out of it, a little bit cushioned from the world? Because there is usually something, dope, khat, coca leaves, booze, mushrooms. Something.

What does life do to us that makes us crave this? I think that is worth investigating.

Boredom, OrmIrian? Lack of imagination in youth, peer pressure, restriction by laws, cultural influences.....

it's grim, ds(15) went to a party at the weekend and he was the only one not getting boozed up.

i don't know why it's getting so much worse. society as a whole seems to have dumbed down. tv and films are generally really aimed at the thicker end of society.

you need to have quite rich to be able to afford theatres/restaurants/gyms.

It is not just the youths either

You are talking about 15-year-olds - here in Glasgow I see young children, 11? 12? absolutely hammered by 5pm on Friday. Groups of them sitting about getting steaming drunk, young girls (13, 14?) falling into bushes with guys etc..

The thing is, their parents will be doing exactly the same thing.

I don't think they should allow corner shops to sell alcohol, full stop. I think the age limit for purchasing alcohol from a supermarket should be 21. And as others have said, there needs to be better youth service facilities for teenagers up here.

I saw a documentary recently about a scottish child, 11 years old I think, who was detailing his battle with alcoholism. he would meet his friends in the park and they would offer him whatever booze they had. He was struggling to say no.

Smallorange - I agree with you completely about corner shops. Many of them just dont care about the law and will sell to anyone. I really think it should be supermarkets only that sell alcohol and with restricted hours.

There are already plenty of laws which should deal with this problem, but they are not being utilised - shops selling to minors, people buying alcohol for those who are under age, publicans/club owners selling to people who are already drunk, light sentences for those causing damage or driving while under the influence..

What shocks (or perhaps surprises me) is how much money young people, and children, seem to have these days. I reckon even putting a minimum price of £3.70 on a bottle or wine will not stop them being able to afford it to excess.

I gave up buying our local paper a couple of years ago because the court reports were so unutterably depressing. The whole page was taken up with cases of damage and assault caused by people who were roaring drunk at the time, drunk people abusing ambulance and other NHS staff.

I was out and about at a really early hour on a Saturday morning several weeks ago, obviously before the council cleanup vans had done their rounds, and was having to dodge piles of vomit and piss on the pavements.

This is not a new problem in Scotland - there is a history of the population, especially the men, drinking to excess. BUT, previously, there was also a sense of shame within families if the drunks were abusive/dangerous/violent. This appalling behaviour now seems to be almost honourable amongst certain sections of the population.

I have no idea how the issue can be tackled successfully.

First the drivers, then the smokers, now the drinkers. Who's next?

Bring on the Thought Police.

I think it's a fair law. They are to be charging per unit of alcohol, so those top strength beers and strong cider will be most hit - and those are the ones young people and alcoholics drink.

I remember the outcry when they brought in drinks like Hooch. Now when you go out at the weekend you see teenage girls falling over with bottles of WKD in their hands. There was a similar outcry over premium strength lagers - now they are the drink of choice for alcoholics needing a quick fix.

If you drink moderately, this law won't affect you. But for everyone else it makes it much more expensive to buy alcohol and that is how it should be. How on earth can off-licences justify selling a litre of strong cider for £1? Who is buying that?

I agree that there are root causes that need to be tackled, but until that gets done, this is a step in the right direction.

people get off with no charges or slaps on the wrist for engaging in criminal behaviour whislt drunk. so yeah, they grow to think it's funny or entertaining.

people kill others whilst drinking drunk and don't go to jail at all or get a sentence of mere months.

they drive whilst banned and get a slap on the wrist.

it's expensive to enforce the laws that are there and/or newer, tougher ones.

so instead they try all these useless measures.

sorry, driving drunk.

go on about disliking the concept of a nanny state all you like, but the history of obesity, smoking and drinking in the UK demonstrates quite clearly that a significant section of our society are unable to make sensible decisions about their health.

It's a brave government that makes unpopular decisions that will benefit the health of the nation. Good on them.

I would go a step further and severely limit the amount of junk food on sale in shops.

I don't know. UK laws in general seem very permissive compared to Australia (where I'm from) and alchol is incredibly cheap. I'm not going to say that there is no binge drinking problemin Aus, but it is nothing like what I've seen in the 4 years I've been living here.
I think one of the main things that makes the difference here is the supermarkets selling grog for less than they buy it for. Did you realise that in every other market around the world Stella is considered a top-shelf premium product? A posh beer!
In Aus the sale of alchol is controled by enormous taxes and also a ban on any marketing strategy seen to encourage drinking to excess (selling at below cost price would, I imagine fall into the latter category).
Also, I think random breath testing (of drivers) has had a huge impact. You think the UK has nannyish laws - I was randomly breath tested 6 times in one year.
Something has to be done - I'd rather be nannied than vomited on or beaten up.

Actually I think its quite a good idea - will watch with interest to see how much effect it has. The cost to the NHS of clearing up the damage from alcohol related damage is pretty high and we all pay for that.

'It's a brave government that makes unpopular decisions that will benefit the health of the nation. Good on them.'

It's not going to benefit the health of the nation. It's going to fill their coffers.

They're not interested in spending the real money it will take to honestly benefit the health of the nation.

You cannot legislate common sense or love...I do agree that something should be done to discourage drinking in young people ..but as others have said it's about finding out why they feel the need to get so drunk...it's about giving children some where to go that is safe and interesting...banning or making something even harder to purchase makes it all the sweeter...plus I like 3 for 2

Why they feel the need to get so drunk? Umm, well as a responsible parental wine snob I can still remember how much fun it was at 17/18 to get completely and obnoxiously drunk! Am I alone? I wasn't filling a void or searching for love in a bottle - I was behaving like most teenagers - stupidly!
The only thing that could have curbed my enthusiasm was stricter enforcement of ID checks to get into pubs (most pubs in Aus ask for your ID at the door, but I had fake ID) and running out of money earlier in the night.
Limiting access through legislation is actually very effective I would have thought.

It's also very socially acceptable in British culture to get very pissed and act like a moron among young people (and adults, even).

I get very weary of people condemning the "nanny state" just because it's legislating on something which they don't like. The government has every right to intervene to (theoretically) improve the lives of its citizens in a wide variety of circumstances - people only ever call it a "nanny state" when they don't like it. Do we condemn the "nanny state" which makes the possession of heroin illegal because it infringes people's rights? Do we condemn that "nanny state" which doesn't allow cigarettes to be sold to a 6 year old?

There is clearly a link between price of alcohol and the level of consumption, as have shown. The link is even stronger in young people (like teenagers) as they have less disposable income and are therefore much more price sensitive. Increasing the price of alcohol will almost certainly reduce the level of alcohol consumption, especially in younger people. Is it the whole answer? No, of course not, but it's a perfectly valid part of the answer.

I'd also add, whilst we're getting hung up on kids getting tanked up and out of control, the level of alcohol consumption in children (both in terms of quantity and frequency) has actually been declining over the last decade.